Re: The first thing he having done being...

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:28:52 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
<news:33d2088e-4227-4223-a46e-a25a719d9534@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
in sci.lang:

On Oct 10, 4:51 pm, "benli...@xxxxxxxxxx"
<benli...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 11, 12:52 am, "Peter T. Daniels"
<gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 10, 12:09 am, "benli...@xxxxxxxxxx"
<benli...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 10, 4:04 pm, "Peter T. Daniels"
<gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 9, 5:53 pm, "benli...@xxxxxxxxxx"
<benli...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 10, 10:15 am, "Peter T. Daniels"
<gramma...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 9, 4:57 pm, "benli...@xxxxxxxxxx"
<benli...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 10, 4:27 am, António Marques <m...@xxxxxxx>
wrote:

'One, of course, is the great Private Park, and,
of course, the greatest thing about it is that
it's no longer private: the first thing which the
King-Emperor having done, upon succeeding the
reclusive Mazzimilian the Mad on the throne,
being to throw open the Private Park to the
pulic.'
-- Avram Davidson, _Polly Charms, the Sleeping
Woman_

I can neither read that 'having' as correct, nor
find an alternative, at least without a major
rewrite. This is one of the Transbalkania
stories, in which I don't know if Avram uses
deliberately non-standard language as he's wont
whenever possible.

[...]

The problem in the above is that the participial
transformation should be applied only to the main
verb in the clause you're trying to
participialize. The underlying clause is something
like "The first thing the King-Emperor did....was
to throw open...", a kind of pseudo- cleft in
which "was" is the main verb.

I think "being" is OK there, but if the underlying
form is "was", you could use "having been". I
think that's the only available alternative. The
writer has attempted also to participialize the
verb in a lower clause ("did"), which just makes a
mess. If you leave "did" it reads tolerably,
though I think it's a mistake to combine the
clefting and the participle. Too much fancy
syntax.

The "lower clause" isn't a clause,

The clause I am talking about is "[which] the
King-Emperor did", a relative clause modifying
"thing".

I'm talking about the corrected version without
"which."

And you don't consider that a clause?

Of course not. A olause has a subject and a predicate --
it's what pre- linguistic grammars called a "sentence."

And "the King-Emperor" and "did" would fail to qualify as
subject and predicate on what grounds?

Since when is a participle the predicate of a clause?

Since when is <did> a participle?

[...]

everything after the colon is just a long and
awkward nominal.

I don't know what you mean by "nominal", and calling
it "awkward" is hardly an analysis of what's wrong
with it.

There's already a main verb in the very first line,
all the rest is decoration.

?? What do you consider the main verb? And main verb
of what?

is

The greatest thing about it is that it's no longer
private

And that is the part of the sentence in which there is
no problem at all.

Obviously.

I thought it would be obvious that I was referring to
the main verb of the remainder of the sentence, a
rather unwieldy structure which the writer has
attempted to attach to the above by means of a
participial (absolute) construction.

The remainder of the sentence has no main verb.

Still pursuing the via negativa, I see. So what would you
consider "being" in the original? I don't mean just its
part of speech, but its function or relation to the rest
of the sentence?

It's a nominal, an appositive to "thing."

Obviously not.

[...]

Brian
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The first thing he having done being...
    ... King-Emperor having done, upon succeeding the reclusive Mazzimilian the ... The underlying clause is something like "The first ... cleft in which "was" is the main verb. ... The writer has attempted also to participialize the verb ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: The first thing he having done being...
    ... King-Emperor having done, upon succeeding the reclusive Mazzimilian the ... The underlying clause is something like "The first ... cleft in which "was" is the main verb. ... The writer has attempted also to participialize the verb ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: The first thing he having done being...
    ... King-Emperor having done, upon succeeding the reclusive Mazzimilian the ... The underlying clause is something like "The first ... cleft in which "was" is the main verb. ... The writer has attempted also to participialize the verb ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: The first thing he having done being...
    ... King-Emperor having done, upon succeeding the reclusive Mazzimilian the ... The underlying clause is something like "The first ... cleft in which "was" is the main verb. ... The writer has attempted also to participialize the verb ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: The first thing he having done being...
    ... King-Emperor having done, upon succeeding the reclusive Mazzimilian the ... cleft in which "was" is the main verb. ... The writer has attempted also to participialize the verb ... longer private:" is one big nominalization of the latter kind. ...
    (sci.lang)