Re: Phonetic contrast between lenis unvoiced and lenis voiced?

On Oct 16, 7:27 am, Craoibhi...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Oct 16, 12:15 am, "ranjit_math...@xxxxxxxxx"

<ranjit_math...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 15, 12:54 pm, Craoibhi...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

However, other descriptions insist that the distinction is the same as
in Georgian, i.e. fortis vs. ejective vs. lenis voiced.

I don't see how there can be doubt whether something is "ejective" or
"lenis unvoiced"; it doesn't seem that the two can sound similar.

Beats me, too.

It looks like a better term than lenis unvoiced is tenuis.

But then, Armenian stops are a pain in the behind anyway.

Malayalam might be a bigger pain for learners of the high register
because pronunciation depends on etymology.

The pronunciation of intervocalic p's, depending of etymology:
lenis Dravidian /p/ -> [b] VOT <15ms
tenuis Sanskrit /p/-> [p] VOT ~25ms
fortis English /p/-> [p] VOT ~45ms
aspirated Sanskrit /ph/ -> [p<h>] VOT ~80ms

The Eastern norm has a three-way distinction: ph - p - b, for
instance, where p is the "lenis unvoiced" or "ejective", depending on
the analysis you prefer. However, in Western Armenian, the Eastern ph
and the Eastern b have merged into one unvoiced fortis, while the
Eastern p is pronounced as a voiced b.

Similarly with the two other series (th - t - d and kh - k - g).

Thus, we have such names as Հակոբ Հակոբյան, which is in the East
pronounced as Hakob Hakobian and in the West as Hagop Hagopian.

.