Re: Origin of Ge. saberdzneti / berdz

On Oct 22, 7:34 am, António Marques <m...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
On Oct 20, 6:20 am, António Marques<m...@xxxxxxx>  wrote:
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
...and Rum meaning a greek from Turkey or Cyprus or some other
place. ru:m is still found in some expressions like ka:thu:likiyy
ru:miyy for Greek (not Roman, i.e. Latin rite, but Greek rite,
recognizing the Pope) Catholic
Grrrr. 'Roman' does not mean 'Latin'. 'Roman Catholic' is a label
originally applied by non-'Roman Catholics', which means 'in communion
with the Pope of Rome'. Whereas in strict 'roman catholic' thinking,
'roman catholic' means 'a roman who is catholic'. Eastern catholics
(greek or otherwise) are roman as well in the common acception; western
catholics who are not from the city of Rome itself are not 'roman
catholic' in the strict sense.
Some eastern catholics think they are not 'roman catholic' because
'roman catholic' means 'latin catholic'. Since, however, 'roman
catholic' does not mean 'latin catholic', they are wrong on that count..
Of course, as far as the church is concerned, they are not 'roman
catholic', but that's because they are not from Rome; the church doesn't
internally recognise the worldly meaning of 'roman catholic', but only
knows 'catholic'.

you are probably right, but in the arab world where latin rite
catholics (ka:*th*u:li:kiy la:ti:niyy) are a minority these
distinctions are important

But that's precisely my point. Notice how the arabic terminology is
accurate:

ka:thu:likiyy ru:miyy = greek ('roman') catholic = byzantine rite

ka:*th*u:li:kiy la:ti:niyy = latin catholic = latin rite

There's nothing there saying 'roman' (in the Rome, not the Rum sense)
equals latin. What I was objecting was to your use of 'roman catholic'
to mean 'latin catholic'.

But there are 4 things I wonder:

1 - The difference between _ka:thu:likiyy_ and _ka:*th*u:li:kiy_. Are
those the same word or not?


same word. just typo.

2 - How does one say 'roman' in the 'ancient Rome' sense and in the
'modern Rome' sense?

eastern mediaval arabs did not makea distinction and called them
ru:miyy as well. it took the western arabs of north africa and spain
to make a distinction and called the western empire or pre-split
romans ru:ma:n and that is how it is in modern arabic.




3 - What do they call eastern catholics (i.e. non-latin) who are not
greek/melkite/byzantine? (e.g. maronite, syriac...?)

depending on the denomination ma:ru:niyy or whatever. I don't think
byzantine is different from greek.




4 - Do non-christians care about these distinctions?- Hide quoted text -


well, for one thing it is a factor in lebanese politics



- Show quoted text -

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