Re: Q: Sanscrit

grammatim (in sci.lang):

On Mar 28, 9:41 am, Joachim Pense <s...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
grammatim (in sci.lang):





On Mar 28, 5:28 am, craoibhi...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 28, 12:28 am, Mok-Kong Shen <mok-kong.s...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi,

I read somewhere that Wilhelm von Humboldt considered Sanscrit
to be a language that is nearly perfect in a certain sense. If
that's right, could someone please give some explanations that
are easily understandable (I know nothing about Sanscrit at all)?

Thanks,

M. K. Shen

It is just the erroneous opinion of a dead man. Sanskrit has an
elaborate system of inflections, and at Humboldt's time, the idea that
elaborate inflectional systems (such as those found in Sanskrit,
Latin, and Greek) were somehow more perfect and ideal than less
elaborate systems, or the near-complete absence of grammatical endings
(as in Chinese). Probably Humboldt's ideas were also influenced by the
fact that in his day, Latin and Greek were widely taught in Europe and
revered as classical and languages.

Wasn;t the question actually, Did Humboldt ever say such a thing? Can
you show that he did?

Humboldt on Sanskrit:
| „Vergleicht man aber hierin das Sanskrit mit dem Griechischen, so ist
| es auffallend, daß in dem ersteren der Begriff des Modus nicht allein
| offenbar unentwickelt geblieben, sondern auch in der Erzeugung der
| Sprache selbst nicht wahrhaft gefühlt und nicht rein  von dem Tempus
| unterschieden worden ist. Es ist daher nicht mit dem der Zeit gehörig
| verknüpft und gar nicht vollständig durch denselben durchgeführt
| worden. Dasselbe findet bei dem Infinitivus statt, der noch außerdem,
| mit gänzlicher Verkennung seiner Verbalnatur, zu dem Nomen
| herübergezogen worden ist. Bei aller, noch so gerechten Vorliebe für
| das Sanskrit muß man gestehen, daß es hierin hinter der jüngeren
| Sprache zurückbleibt. [...] Die Ursach ist offenbar eine mehr
| innerliche. Der ideelle Bau des Verbum, sein innerer, vollständig in
| seine verschiedenen Teile gesonderter Organismus entfaltete sich nicht
| in hinreichender Klarheit vor dem bildenden Geiste der Nation. [...]
| Die Ursach einer solchen mangelhaften Entwicklung oder unrichtigen
| Auffassung eines Sprachbegriffs möge aber, gleichsam äußerlich, in der
| Lautform oder innerlich in der ideellen Auffassung gesucht werden
| müssen, so liegt der Fehler immer in mangelnder Kraft des erzeugenden
| Sprachvermögens. Eine mit der erforderlichen Kraft geschleuderte Kugel
| läßt sich nicht durch entgegenwirkende Hindernisse von ihrer Bahn
| abbringen, und ein mit gehöriger Stärke ergriffener Ideenstoff
| entwickelt sich in gleichförmiger Vollendung bis in seine feinsten und
| nur durch die schärfste Absonderung zu trennenden Glieder."
<http://www.ellenfricke.de/lehre/organismus/humboldt.rtf>

My translation attempt:
"But if you compare in this respect Sanskrit with Greek, then it is
striking that the notion of mood not alone has remained undeveloped, but
wasn't really sensed in the production of the speech, and wasn't clearly
distinguished from tense. It hasn't therefore been properly combined with
the notion of time, nor thoroughly executed through it. The same thing
happens with the infinitive, which on top of that, completely misjudging
its verbal nature, has been drawn over to the noun. In spite of all
preference for Sanskrit, justified as it is, one must admit that it falls
behind the younger language. [...] The cause is obviously very internal.
The ideal structure of the verb, its internal organism, completely
differentiated into its parts, didn't unfold in sufficient clarity in
front of the developing spirit of the nation. [...] The reason of such a
poor development or the incorrect perception of a notion of language
should be searched , quasi externally, in the shape of the sounds, or
internally in the ideal conception - the error is always in lacking force
of the generating language competence. A ball, thrown with sufficent
force, cannot be lead from its course by antagonising obstacles, and a
fabric of ideas, caught with sufficient force, develops in steady
achievement well into its most subtle parts, wich can be separated only
by most sharp secession."

That sounds different from "nearly perfect".

Indeed. It seemed unlikely, since Humboldt was the first to do
something like typological study of a wide variety of languages.

Though he does seem to think Greek is the ideal ...

Like if the subtleties of the language have to develop first, and then start
wearing off, and at the end everything is honed down in an isolating
language. Recently someone stated here that Humboldt did not yet have the
idea of a cyclic development, with new inflections developing based on the
isolating state. I was surprised, because I always had believed that that
was Humboldt's idea.

Joachim
.

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