Re: The Turkic Languages in a Nutshell



Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
In sci.lang Darkstar <darkstar100@xxxxxxxx> wrote in <9b6b083b-3c47-4508-a42e-e04e045e0663@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:


: Darkstar wrote:
:> Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
:> > On Jul 9, 10:26 pm, Darkstar <darkstar...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
:>
:> > for one thing oghuz does not have -d- for *-*dh*-
:> >
:>
:> The initial h- can actually be explained by the following paragraph
:> from al-Kashgari:
:>
:> "People of Khutan [Khotan in the Tarim Basin] and Kanzhak [=a city
:> further to the east] substitute the 'alifs [=the word-initial hamza]
:> by an h. That is why we do not consider them as Turks [=pure
:> Karakhanid Turks], they introduce something foreign into the Turkic
:> speech. For instance, the Turks call the father 'ata, whereas they say
:> hata, the mother -- 'ana, whereas they say hana." [Diwanu l-Lugat al-
:> Turk].
:>
:> It shows there existed a South Karakhanid dialect in the southern part
:> of the Tarim Basin that basically did the same thing as modern Khalaj.

: Wiki diyor ki:
: "Hala??an?n T?rk dilleri aras?ndaki yeri konusunda en belirleyici y?n?
: belki de Ana Altayca *p- sesinin devam? say?lan Ana T?rk?e varsay?msal
: *h- sesini ya?at?yor olmas?d?r. Orta Mo?olcada h- ve ?a?da?
: Man?uTunguz dillerinden Nanaycada p- olarak g?r?len bu ses T?rk
: dillerinde da??n?k olarak g?r?l?yorsa da, d?zenli olarak ya?ad??? tek
: dil Hala??ad?r."
: http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hala??a

: Bu do?ru de?il. The Mongolic and Tungusic-Manchu languages have
: extremely complicated rules for the presence of the word initial x-/h-/
: 0-. An h- may be present in one language but disappear in another, or
: mutate to an f-. Moreover, there's no proof that the Middle Mongolic
: h- goes back to *p-. In fact, in many cases it corresponds to the
: Turkic k-/q-, e.g. Middle Mongolian hula'an, Khalkha uLa:n, Dongxian

ula:n seems more related to turkic al "pink, red"

No, it's Middle Mongolian "hula'an" which is nearly always the closest
to the proto-form. Khalkha always drops or adds something. And Khalkha
uLa:n sounds as /ush'an/, I've heard it.
.

Relevant Pages

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