Re: Torkel Franzén is dead

George Dance wrote:
Then I can only conclude that you believe that (1) some people never
need to use principles of good reasoning, or (2) everyone needs to use
principles of fluid mechanics.

What?! He didn't say there are people who don't need to use good
reasoning. He said that there are people who don't need to learn FORMAL
logic.

Which leaves him one way to escape the dilemma,

What dilemma?

Of asserting either (1) or (2) above).

the one he took: to
deny that the principles of formal logic have any connection with
principles of good reasoning.

Please provide a quote in which Franzen said that there is NO
connection between formal logic and principles of good reasoning.

Yet another apparent straw man - even more apparent, since it's clear
that 'he' refers to Aatu Koskensilta.

My mistake. Yes, it was Koskensilta to whom you referred.

What Aatu eventually said, in
response to the dilemma, was: "Teaching someone to "use" some formal
calculi or other in no way constitutes teaching correct reasoning." Do
you think I'm misinterpreting the meaning of 'in no way'?

Yes, since what Koskensilta said does not entail that Koskensilta
believes there is no conncection between formal logic and principles of
good reasoning. All Koskensilta argued was that teaching formal logic
is not itself to teach correct reasoning; and I take that in a
REASONABLE sense (as opposed to your MOST unreasonable misconstrual)
that teaching formal logic does not ensure that the student will
exercise good reasoning in informal contexts. It is NOT reasonable to
think that Koskensilta thereby claims that there is no connection
between formal logic and principles of good reasoning.

You're starting to rack up a list of claims as to what Franzen said,
but in too many instances those claims are without an actual quote of
Franzen provided by you.

Three of those claims - that Frankel raised the issue of PhDs,

See my previous post. YOU mentioned something like. "Not unless he
raised the issue." So, NATURALLY, I asked you say where he raised the
issue. If he did NOT raise the issue, then your remark is utterly
irrelevent and leaves your charge of a "correlation" with PhDs
unsubstantiated.

that he
discriminated on the basis of PhDs,

Call it a "correlation" not a discrimination. Fine. You just need to
say EXACTLY what is your claim about a "correlation" (that is, a
correlation that does not manifest as Franzen discriminating along the
lines of that correlation? Is that right? If not, then I don't know
what you're claiming. I just don't know what it is exactly that you
claim about a "correlation" let alone that you haven't shown a
"correlation").

and now that he made the above
statement - look like claims that you added to the list yourself.

It was my mistake regarding Franzen and Koskensilta. Nevertheless, I
find your characterization of Koskensilta's view to be clearly
unreasonable.

Meanwhile, there's also that little matter of your claim that Franzen
"completely ignored" (or whatever exact wording you used) the subject
of the the thread on logic in schools.

And you have a really bad habit of too often taking certain things that
people say in the most ridiculous sense you can extract from the actual
reasonable statement being made. That makes communication with you
laborious at best.

MoeBlee

.

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