Re: The set of all JOKES.....

On Feb 25, 4:46?pm, "charlesweh...@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<charlesweh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 24 Feb., 20:47, "John Jones" <jonescard...@xxxxxxx> wrote:





On Feb 24, 5:29?pm, "charlesweh...@xxxxxxxxxxx"

<charlesweh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 23 Feb., 21:54, "John Jones" <jonescard...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Yes, we can never stop the process of substituting for 'itself'. But
the first move was untenable anyway:
?Which is 'this' set? And how can you refer to a self-reference
('itself')?

The set is "This is the set of all jokes that does include itself".

The jokes within the set are:

"This is the set of all jokes that does include "This is the set of
all jokes that does include itself".".

"This is the set of all jokes that does include "This is the set of
all jokes that does include "This is the set of all jokes that does
include itself".".".

"This is the set of all jokes that does include "This is the set of
all jokes that does include "This is the set of all jokes that does
include "This is the set of all jokes that does include itself".".".".

"This is the set of all jokes that does include "This is the set of
all jokes that does include "This is the set of all jokes that does
include "This is the set of all jokes that does include "This is the
set of all jokes that does include itself".".".".".

and so on to infinite length.

The first move was untenable. Correct. However, one can put any word
one likes into a sentence. By retaining the word "itself", one has
avoided the untenable move. This word is retained in the original,
which although a set, is not a joke.

When we fall into the trap of substituting that word, we have entered
into the collection of jokes. The question only remains - how many
times does one make the untenable move before one "twigs" that one
should leave the word UNCHANGED?

As one can put any word into a sentence that one wants to, one can put
"itself" in - as a word - without it necessarily referencing anything.
It is just a pattern of letters of the alphabet, which must be present
for the original specification to be met.

Charles Douglas Wehner

I don't dispute your analysis, but the first question to ask is this:
"This is the set of all jokes that does include itself"
- which is 'this' set of all jokes that does include itself'?..- Zitierten Text ausblenden -

- Zitierten Text anzeigen -

The string of words itself, which is not a joke until the untenable
substitution takes place. Then it expands out into all the jokes.

Charles Douglas Wehner- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Right. It is the string of words. And here we see the same problem
that besets Godel, that besets realism and Kantian methodological
interpretations of reality.

The 'string of words' is not definable in the scenario you present. It
stands outside it. It cannot be referred to as the object that holds
the sense of the sentence for an object cannot fulfill that duty.

The string of words cannot relate sentence and meaning if all it can
do is determine that they both fall in the same place on the page.

.

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