Re: Technical Animism

John Jones schrieb:

What tells me that intelligence is exhibited by a structure? Until I
define intelligence then nothing can tell me.

Hey you are stupid as hell. I didn't say that. I started
with saying that intelligence has something to do with performance
versus a certain task. And then I continued in explaining that
this is even subjective.

But you are saying that intelligence (like a spirit) suddenly arises
within 'organised' matter, and that the matter then becomes an
intelligent structure. This is animism.

I never took the word "organized" in my mouth. I only spoke
about an instance versus a global property. Cant you read
you stupid dump.

The sun, which is both mind and body, exhibits intelligence because
its functions always achieves its outcomes - giving out light. The
mistake, of course, is to regard intelligence as a property of
structure.

If you regard giving light as a intelligence demanding task yes.
But if you see for example the task in creating diversity on the
earth, then the sun might even not be a good performer. If the sun
is too hot life is destroyed, and if the sun is too cold also.

But only narrow minded people as you that never listen are too
dumb too image that a planet could exhibit intelligence. You
champion pessimistic thinking.

But others have already gotten more guts than you, for example
there is an interesting theory called "Gaia", which attributes
intelligence to the earth surface. So that the earth surface
can for example compensate for mismatching suns performance, and
stabilize the climate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

It is circular reasoning to say that there is a causal relationship
between 'organised' or 'emergent' matter and 'appropriate' intelligent
outcomes. No such causal claim can be made. For what is 'appropriate'
is by definition what is 'organised' and what is 'organised' is by
definition what is 'appropriate'.

You are really a dumb ass. I don't know where you got the word
"organized" from by citing me. Maybe from the word "Organon" of
aristoteles. But aristoteles "Organon" doesn't mean for me
organization of the subject matter, but organization of my/others
tought and language.

Organization does not guarantee performance in an environment.
Only garantees perhaps that the system persues certain goals
more efficiently. But whether these goals will lead to the
desired income when the system interacts with its environment
is not clear.

For example, I bet many businesse companies are well organized,
but will they survive? So you are in two aspects citing me wrongly.
First I never claimed a causal relationship between organized
and outcomes, nor do I define it in this way.

But the discussion on organization shows a certain weekness of
the performance based definition of intelligence. The definition
is not fair, it can be quite arbitrary. For example for a business,
maybe it was pure luck to survive so long, and the business could
even have been very unorganized.

There are even some studies that try to show that less organizations
can be good for performance. Such studies are found in management
science. And the question is how can this happen? Maybe it has
something to do with coallition forming and its economic aspects
theorof, including the risk compensation effects of the business
company itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

An interesting topic is also the idea that emergence can be
based on very simple rules. Which would probably also contribute
to the idea of less organization can be good for performance.
I give you an example: With a simple wall following algorithm
you can escape certain types of labyrinths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_life

But maybe you were simply confused by the notion "relation"
from Aristotele and confused it with causal/definition relation.
I feel very sorry for you, that you are not able to formulate
your ideas in your own words, and instead put them into
my mouth.

Best Regards





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