Re: The king of france is ...

On Apr 20, 6:06 am, "Jesse F. Hughes" <je...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Newberry <newberr...@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
On Apr 19, 8:05 pm, "Jesse F. Hughes" <je...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
NOTE: It seems to me that the plain English sentence "all the apples
in my basket are red" is true when there are no apples in the basket.
I'm not convinced that we always interpret such sentences as having an
implicit claim that there are more than one apple in my basket.  But,
insofar as that's how you want to interpret the sentence, either of
the above will do.

Make up your mind. Either
A)
 "the aple in my basket is red" = (Ex)(Bx & Rx & (y)(By -> y=x)) and
then
"all the apples in my basket are red" = (Ex)Bx & (x)[Bx -> (Rx & ~(y)
(By -> y=x)], or
B)
"the apple in my basket is red" =  (x)[Bx -> (Rx & (y)(By -> y=x))]
"all the apples in my basket are red" =  (x)[Bx -> (Rx & ~(y)(By ->
y=x))] and

Which one is it?

You've drawn the lines differently than I intended.  Here are the
options.  We interpret "All the apples in my basket are red" as
implying

(a) nothing about the number of apples in the basket.

  (x)(Bx -> Rx)

(b) that there is at least one apple in the basket.

  (Ex)(Bx) & (x)(Bx -> Rx)

(c) that there is more than one apple in the basket.

  (Ex)Bx & (x)[Bx -> (Rx & ~(y)(By -> y=x))]

(d) that there is not exactly one apple in the basket.

  (x)[Bx -> (Rx & ~(y)(By -> y=x))]

(d) is most implausible and I was not suggesting that we interpret the
sentence as (d).  I was suggesting that we interpret the sentence as
(a).  I don't see the phrase "All of the X satisfying P..." conveys
anything about whether or how many X satisfy P.

Oh? Do you know the difference between "apple" and "apples"? "Apple"
means "one apple", "apples" means "more than one apple."
 
In this respect, the sentence "The apples in my basket are all red,"
is different.  It *does* seem to imply that there are at least two
such apples and I'd say that (c) is the most plausible
interpretation.  Because the sentences

  "All the apples in my basket are red."
  "The apples in my basket are all red."

are so similar, I'm willing to admit that one might interpret the
former in exactly the same way and hence choose (c).  I wouldn't, but
it's not obviously wrong.

The point is that if "the apple in my basket is red" conveys that
there is exactly one apple then "all the apples in my basket are red"
conveys that there is more than one apple. I would not interpret "the
apple in my basket is red" as (Ex)(Bx & Rx & (y)(By -> y=x)), but if
you choose to do so then you must also interpret "all the apples in my
basket are red" as c).

Because the uniqueness does not come from the "the" but from the fact
that the sentence is in singular. Obviously. "The apples in my basket
are red" does not imply that there is exactly one apple evan though it
also contains "the."

Furthermore "the apple in my basket is red" and "the apples in my
basket are red" are mutually exclusive. Therefore you have to
interpret the later either as more than one apple.

Russell's theory of descriptions and "all the round squares are green"
cannot both be true at the same time.

None of my answers here have a damn thing to do with the question of
how to interpret "The apple in my basket is red."  That sentence
clearly implies there is one and only one apple in my basket

It does not. (x)[Bx -> (Rx & (y)(By -> y=x)] presupposes (Ex)Bx. But
that is a different issue.

and hence
should be translated as

  (Ex)(Bx & Rx & (y)(By -> y=x)).




.

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