Re: An argument against modus ponens

OP wrote:
John Jones wrote:
OP wrote:
John Jones wrote:
Modus Ponens:
If P, then Q.
P. Therefore, Q.

The "If" announces a truth value. So "if P" requires the consideration of another element or object through which a truth value may be ascertained.

Why does "if P" require the consideration of another element or object through which a truth value may be ascertained?

"If P" does not mean this: P may be presented or may not be presented.
Rather, "If P" requires us to consider the non-representation of P as an element.

So if "if P" turns out for P (P is true), and not for the other, unnamed element (R, as I term it) we still need to entertain the idea of that element (R) which P is not if we want to retain the ontological significance of "if" statements.

"If P" then, says P, R. In fact, simply "if" says P, R.

I notice that you did not answer my question. I asked why "if P" requires the consideration of another element or object, etc., and you replied "'if p' requires us to consider the non-representation of P as an element." Which is exactly what I was asking you to explain.

The significance of "if" statements is that they allow for at least two possibilities- that something (P) is the case, or not the case (R). Our disagreement falls on the description of 'not the case', or 'absent' as I describe it below.

1) Firstly, both cases need a syntactical representation if we are to retain the grammatical significance of 'if' statements.

2) Let's argue against me: 'If P' entails either only P or the absence of P, but does not entail R. However, I argue that in this case, the absence of P entails the absence of the context of P.

Explanation: If the absence of P did not entail the absence of the context of P, and the context of P is retained, then the absence of P must be represented in that context. For example, if P is a physical object and if we retain the context of physical objects, then the absence of P is a vacuum (R), or a lost or hidden object (R), or some such (R). But if P is a physical object and if both P AND its context is absent, then there are no physical objects, period. This would say more than we intended about the specifications laid out by our 'if P ..' statement, and undermine 1) above (undermine the scenario laid out by if statements). More importantly, we cannot represent the two outcomes - P being the case or not the case, if only P has a context.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: An argument against modus ponens
    ... 'If P' entails either only P or the absence of P, but does not entail R. However, I argue that in this case, the absence of P entails the absence of the context of P. ... If the absence of P did not entail the absence of the context of P, and the context of P is retained, then the absence of P must be represented in that context. ... For example, if P is a physical object and if we retain the context of physical objects, then the absence of P is a vacuum, or a lost or hidden object, or some such. ...
    (sci.logic)
  • Re: An argument against modus ponens
    ... 'If P' entails either only P or the absence of P, but does not entail R. However, I argue that in this case, the absence of P entails the absence of the context of P. ... If the absence of P did not entail the absence of the context of P, and the context of P is retained, then the absence of P must be represented in that context. ... For example, if P is a physical object and if we retain the context of physical objects, then the absence of P is a vacuum, or a lost or hidden object, or some such. ...
    (sci.logic)
  • Re: syllogism
    ... >The term definitive refers to objectively stated criteria for truth ... not a problem in those groups because posters have a sense ... variation of "analysis" to describe what is largely ambiguity? ... the context is always obvious, ...
    (sci.logic)
  • Re: Scientific method to reject "proof" of Allah being not almighty
    ... The Truth Is ... The ultimate issue at hand, a Purposive and Guided Existence, is *far* ... What is the context of this creation? ...
    (soc.religion.islam)
  • Re: Settle a debate: running & muscle building
    ... And the direct context here, per the quote way up at the top, was ... just said or whether it bore any relation to the truth. ... removed from the language, there would be less belief in the ... Used as a verb, I have a sliver of sympathy for your viewpoint. ...
    (rec.running)