Re: The Asymmetry of Identity

george wrote:

John Jones wrote:
The = sign doesn't guarantee unreserved symmetry between expressions.

NOTHING creates symmetry between EXPRESSIONS.
It is THE SIGN that has symmetry. It is = ITSELF that *is*
symmetric.

The fullstop (or period) has symmetry too. And its use doesn't guarantee unreserved symmetry between its expressions either.

I can be a reminder or sign that is appended to one expression to show
that that expression is referencing another expression.

It CAN'T avoid being PREpended to the "another" expression in THAT
context.

The = sign never occurs in isolation. Nor does it occur between expressions, except visually. The = sign is appended to only one expression so

"sqrt.9=" 2
is correct,
and not
"sqrt.9= 2"

And whether you append or prepend fundamentally makes NO difference --
there
is no law requiring left (as opposed to right) to be "pre" or "first";
indeed a great
many languages OTHER than English do in fact do it the other way.

What about people who read through mirrors? Or what about looking at equations upside down? Do these ways of looking spoil symmetry?

1) Taking the expression sq.rt4 = 2. Sq.rt4 refers to 2. 2 does not
refer to anything. 2 is the object itself. It is presented, we don't
need to refer to it, it is there in front of us to use as we wish.

Since one of the uses we could wish is to remind people that it is
the
positive square root of 4, we CAN ALSO SAY 2=sqrt(4).

2=sqrt(4) wouldn't mean anything, unless sqrt4 is used to come up with another number. Nobody wants sqrt4, a reference, for its own sake.


2) A = A (or A is equal to itself) is another asymmetric use of the = sign.

This article you just posted is another assholic use of public
stupidity.

An object that references itself is not the object referenced by
another.

But it STILL IS the object referenced by ITSELF,

No it isn't. An object that is given through a reference to itself has no properties.

which, SYMMETRY being
what
we're talking about here, IS a CONFIRMING example of symmetry.

Object properties are given by reference,

No, they're not. You can refer to a thing without giving ANY of its
properties
other than the route by which it is referenced.

Object properties are given by reference. Objects are presented. Spatiotemporally usually.

but not by self-reference.

In order to perceive the reference, you would have to HAVE ALREADY
BEEN
given SOME reference to the object. Whether that reference is or
isn't self is something
you may OR MAY NOT be aware of.

Acts of self-reference are not surveyable.

You have to EVALUATE the
reference. You have
to FOLLOW the reference.

The real asymmetry you are looking for involves evaluation, involves
getting closer
to some simpler or "normal" form. You need to google (or wiki) the
phrase
"rewrite rules". Believe it or not, for all your pretensions to
knowing enough to be
able to educate us (and they truly are pretense), YOU ARE NOT THE
FIRST person
to notice that = can be asymmetric.

Ohhh, yes I am

You are, perhaps, however, the
most incompetent.

Ohhh, no I'm not
.

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