Re: what follows from denying an axiom

On Jan 23, 3:35 pm, Chris Menzel <cmen...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  Second-order languages have a generalized model theory (from
  Henkin) that is essentially first-order.

Which is bull***.

To which you responded:

  The Henkin semantics IS NOT SECOND-ORDER ANYTHING

despite the fact that, not only had I not said it Henkin's semantics was
second-order, I had explicitly stated that it is first-order.

IF you had UNDERSTOOD what YOU said, then YOU WOULD KNOW
that the FACT THAT the Henkin semantics is first-order MEANS THAT IT
CANNOT BE a "generalized" ANYthing * FOR A SECOND-order* ANYthing!!


You do understand English well enough to see that that does not say that
Henkin's semantics itself is second-order, right?

Geez, I only got 800 on the verbal GRE.

It is certainly AN issue in a discussion if your misunderstandings are
leading you to make false or confused claims.

That is not my problem here.
It is yours.

The ISSUE is what YOU do or don't understand!

It is an issue if indeed I am making false or confused claims because I
am misunderstanding something.

OK, I retract, *THAT* is not your problem.
Your problem is not that the claim you made is "false"
or "confused". Your problem is that your claim is WRONG
for the reasons that I stated.


Unfortunately, your goal here is not really increasing anyone's
understanding.

Sure it is; yours, at least.

Do yourself a favor. GIVE UP.
I did NOT ASK for free tuition here.
I AM NOT IN YOUR CLASS (pun unfortunate).


It is just proving that you didn't make a mistake.

That's just silly.  I'm happy to acknowledge mistakes when I make them,

OH, BULL***!!

Your first problem is that YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT COUNTS
*as* a mistake!

Your first mistake in this context was DISAGREEING WITH ME.
You obviously didn't know that that could be a mistake.
Well, NOW YOU KNOW.


I just haven't made any in this instance.

Hurbis.
Bull***.
Arrogance.
Blindness.
Idiocy.
GROSS DISRESPECT.

 You, by contrast, are simply overflowing with them.

You are NOT in any position to judge!

 Your biggest confusion is to try to find an error in my
utterly innocuous and uncontroversial claim above.

I did NOT HAVE TO TRY to find ANYTHING!
IT WAS BLATANT AND I HIGHLIGHTED IT!
The issue IS NOT whether it was or wasn't FOUND!
The issue IS whether it was or wasn't ERRONEOUS!!

 A second error is your apparent belief that it is improper to refer to languages
with predicate quantifiers as second-order languages when in fact this
practice is almost universal (and easily justified).

THIS IS BULL***.
If ALL you are talking about is the quantifiers then YOU CAN'T EVEN
TELL
whether you are dealing with a 2nd-order AS OPPOSED to a 2-sorted
FIRST-
order language (which is of course basically what the Henkin semantics
demotes
it to). IF you are going to state a defining feature for "a second-
order language" then
it WOULD HAVE to be the allowance of predicate constants AND
variables AND
functions AND terms IN THE ARGUMENT POSITION OF OTHER(higher-order)
predicates and functors AND NOT *just* about the quantifiers!

Your calling something "universal and justified" simply is not going
to
cut it around HERE. There are a lot of practices that are widespread
that
I not only deplore, but have always been fighting and will continue
to.

 An error of more recent vintage, based upon a technical confusion about the range of
second-order quantifiers in general interpretations,

The fact that I was unaware that the adjective "general" HAD BEEN
EXPROPRIATED
to have a technical/jargon meaning in this context IS NOT ANY sort of
error or confusion on my part. I was arguing from the natural meaning
of the adjective.
I am happy that you know the jargon but KNOWLEDGE of the jargon IS
YOUR *confusion*!! Just because somebody has defined "general
interpreation
of a second order langauge" does NOT MEAN that the things that they
have
put in that category are relevant to the second-order enterprise, OR
that they
are GENERAL in anything VAGUELY resembling the NATURAL meaning of that
adjective!

.

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