Re: Updated - new theory of space and matter

From: Zim Olson (zimmathematics_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 07/12/04 

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:57:10 +0000 (UTC)

On 01 Jul 2004, Gary Forbat wrote:
>The TimeLord <mathnphysics-not@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<10cvdncpnc7hgb0@corp.supernews.com>...
>> Gary Forbat <garyforbat@yahoo.com> wrote on Sunday 13 June 2004 20:26 in
>> <a836ace0.0406131726.73390e68@posting.google.com> posted in
>> alt.sci.time-travel:
>>
>> > find this general explanation of space and matter on URL
>> > 1 on micro physics
>> > Chapter 2 on macro physics
>> >
>> > Discussion welcome
>> >
>> > www.geocities.com/garyforbat
>>
>> Well, the content is not very good. Chapters 1 and 2 are basically some kind
>> of interview, where we don't know if Gary Forbat is the interviewer or the
>> interviewee. You have to scroll all the way down to "Advanced Principles"
>> to get to anything that seems to explain this "theory".
>>
>> "Advanced Principles" sets forth what appears to be the axioms of Forbat's
>> theory, most of which tend to be related to Psychology rather than space
>> and matter. Thus the theory doesn't apply to space and matter but, maybe,
>> to Psychology.
>>
>> The first principle that seems to relate in a remote way to space and matter
>> is principle 6, which simply redefines time in such a way as to be
>> incompatible with reality.
>>
>> I had to crack up on principle 10, which is simply a false statement.
>> Einstein included empty space because empty space is flat space-time. Since
>> space-time can be flat, empty space is possible in both SR and GR. In the
>> end, Forbat claims, in capital letters, that space can not curve. However,
>> this is equivalent to saying that when the space-time metric depends on
>> position, it always depends in such a way that the curvature tensor is
>> always equal to zero. Thus the existence of a force such as gravity would
>> be impossible. We know that gravity is possible (example: you being
>> attracted to Earth), thus the statement on Forbat's website about space
>> not being able to curve is false. - I'm not sure what he wanted to show by
>> his comments on "Binary Aspects". Nevertheless, the four coordinates of
>> events are 3 coordinates of regular space and 1 coordinate of time for a
>> total of 4 coordinates (dimensions). Space-time (or event-space as it's
>> also called) will always have at least 4 dimensions because of that.
>>
>> >
>> > Placed in a fictional setting
>> > Chapter
>>
>> ???
>
>TimeLord thanks for your contribution. It is obvious to me that you
>have not read the main essay but went straight to the end line and the
>summaries that follow. The Advanced Principles are meant to be read
>after the essays, presupposing what is ithere, but you show no
>indication whatsoever that you know the content since you mention only
>minor issues and miss the main points,like the dynamic structuring
>process etc....Please read the essay first before commenting.
>
>I have now rewritten and added to parts of the essay and began chapter
>3 with clues of what is to follow. I hope you have some criticism of
>the real issues.
>
>TimeLord
>YOU WROTE:
>"Advanced Principles" sets forth what appears to be the axioms of
>Forbat's
>theory, most of which tend to be related to Psychology rather than
>space
>and matter. Thus the theory doesn't apply to space and matter but,
>maybe,
>to Psychology.
>
>MY REPLY:
>I do not see why you think it is psychology. Perhaps you could
>elaborate on this. The only thing that comes to mind is Kant's theory
>of space, that space is a 'secondaty quality' like colours, and 3d is
>not an actual reality but a mind dependent analysis of a non-spatial
>object....or something like that....I believe Einstein was deeply
>influenced by these ideas. Somehow I think this is not what you meant.
>If you did mean this, then you will need to wait until I publish my
>Critique of Einstein's Relativity theories. There are a number of
>problems, one of which is the one I just mentioned. Other problems
>include not discharging the hypothetical when deriving the square root
>of minus one through inducing a hypothetical, thereby creating inverse
>equivalences....and of course the problem of space matter
>interactivity.
>
>YOU WROTE:
>The first principle that seems to relate in a remote way to space and
>matter
>is principle 6, which simply redefines time in such a way as to be
>incompatible with reality.
>
>MY REPLY:
>This is a wild and unfounded statement that anybody can make. If you
>want clarification you need to be more specific so I can answer you
>objection.
>
>YOU WROTE:
>I had to crack up on principle 10, which is simply a false statement.
>Einstein included empty space because empty space is flat space-time.
>Since
>space-time can be flat, empty space is possible in both SR and GR.
>
>MY REPLY:
>Yes you are cracked up on this point. As already explained above, my
>objection is Einstein making matter and space interactive. My idea is
>that space is an underlaying emptiness (though never found in empty
>form)which forms the receptacle for matter to exist in. I say nothing
>can interact with emptiness, and that is intuitively obvious.
>
>YOU WROTE:
>In the end, Forbat claims, in capital letters, that space can not
>curve. However, this is equivalent to saying that when the space-time
>metric depends on position, it always depends in such a way that the
>curvature tensor is always equal to zero. Thus the existence of a
>force such as gravity would be impossible. We know that gravity is
>possible (example: you being attracted to Earth), thus the statement
>on Forbat's website about space not being able to curve is false.
>
>YOU WROTE:
>Placed in a fictional setting?
>
>MY REPLY:
>By questioning this it is proof you haven't read the work. It should
>be obvious to anyone.
>
>*****************************
>*****************************
>
>TMELORD, this appears a classical example of judging ideas from an
>incompatible framework. Of course it will look incorrect if you take
>the current theories as the standard of thought by which to judge it.
>If and when you read my 'dialogues' open mind and follow each point on
>its own merits.
>
>TimeLord, I suggest you read the latest version and comment directly
>on issues raised therein. I welcome your or a anybody else's
>criticisms as long as they are specific to the point and detailed in
>your objection so I may respond with similar detail.
>
>There is more to come when I update the 'dialogues'in the upcoming
>months. Please excuse the slow progress of the essay. Due to work
>commitments in other directions I have only a few hours in each week
>to work on it.

Zim Olson here:

I talk a little of Space, Time, Math. in different terms at my web site:

 http://www.zimmathematics.com

A warning though that Sephen Wolfram in "A New Kind of Science" also attempts to explain physical phenomena in terms of Information Concepts. So I am not alone.

Zim Olson

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