Re: Nobody noes it _yet_

From: Herman Family (celcaps_at_frontiernets.net/without_any_s/)
Date: 07/30/04 

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:35:19 GMT

"Donald G. Shead" <dcshead@charter.net> wrote in message
news:48402bae.0407300352.18874b2@posting.google.com...
> j.schoenfeld@programmer.net (John Schoenfeld) wrote in message
news:<a98beaaa.0407291712.312e9f79@posting.google.com>...
> CUT<
> > >
> > > I don't think anybody knows _yet_, the difference between Galileo's
> > > "rate of freefall" [s/t^2 = 16'/sec^2] and Newton's "acceleration of
> > > free fall" [2s/t^2 = 32'/sec^2].
> >
> > What is your purpose, Shead?
>
> Well it started out to simply show that physics has become entangled
> with all sorts of loose ends because the metric system made artifacts
> for weights that were to be used to calibrate weight scales
> internationally.
>
> These artifacts - the gram and kilogram - were to be the standard
> units of mass, and the fundamental units of the metric system were
> chosen to be: Length; Mass, and Time.
>
> I've been trying to argue that the fundamental units of physics are:
> Length; Force [& weight], and Time; with mass being a ratio of force,
> divided the acceleration that it causes; which ratio [f/a] is equal to
> the weight [w] of an object; body, or mass of matter, divided by the
> acceleration [g] at which it will free fall at the location of the
> scale on which it is weighed: That the measure of mass is inertia [m =
> f/a = w/g].
>
> None of you will have it, and keep knocking me down! So in my best
> interests; I think I'll "cool it" for a while;^)

You do realize that the mlt method has superseded the flt method for good
reason. One of which is a fuller understanding that mass is invariant,
while force is dependent on other bodies. By your standard, if an object
is placed in an environment in which all forces equal out, then it suddenly
has no mass. By the mlt method, it still has mass, but has a zero weight.

In the flt method, if an object of some mass is zipping through the universe
with no net gravitational forces on it, m = w/g, with w = 0, and gnet = 0,
then mass = 0. It thus has no momentum mv, and no kinetic energy mv^2.

In the mlt method, if an object of some mass is zipping throught the
universe with no et gravitational forces on it, w = mg = 0, mass = m, and it
does have a momentum mv, and a kinetic energy mv^2.

flt works fine (sort of) on earth, where g is relatively constant. It falls
apart in space. It especially falls apart when you decide to play with
cosmology. For what you are attempting to do, the mlt method would work
better.

Remember, mass is neither created nor destroyed. Weight changes with
location.

Kindly also remember that your audience here is used to the difference
between mass and weight, and it isn't unusual to find the terms for these
interchanged improperly in the "real" world, we do try to keep them correct
in physics.

Michael

Relevant Pages

  • How forces work
    ... Is that the one where "m" is mass in grams? ... It is pushing up with the same force as my weight. ... >> The chair is only pushing down with 980 newtons if it is massless. ... Or you skimmed through A Brief History of Time, or perhaps The Physics ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: Nobody noes it _yet_
    ... > Well it started out to simply show that physics has become entangled ... One of which is a fuller understanding that mass is invariant, ... By the mlt method, it still has mass, but has a zero weight. ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: OT: Speed of light [was Re: Why not a Python compiler?]
    ... That actually feeds right back into my earlier port about physics subsuming terminology to its own ends. ... Making the distinction between mass and weight is critical for understanding physics, but not for everyday behavior involving measuring things in pounds; after all, in extending the popular concept of a "pound," different physicists made a distinction between mass and weight differently such that there is no accepted standard. ... Of _course_ physicists have to make a distinction between mass and weight, and to do so with Imperial or American systems of units requires deciding which one a "pound" is, and what to do with the other unit. ...
    (comp.lang.python)
  • Re: So, I got my OW Cert
    ... chemistry or physics... ... of sugar with a "net weight" of 2 kg or of 4 lb or whatever, ... quantity physicists like to refer to as "mass". ... one with several different meanings. ...
    (rec.scuba)
  • Re: Nobody noes it _yet_
    ... Well it started out to simply show that physics has become entangled ... with all sorts of loose ends because the metric system made artifacts ... chosen to be: Length; Mass, ... Length; Force [& weight], and Time; with mass being a ratio of force, ...
    (sci.physics)