Re: JSH: Funding, real world, not fantasy

From: Tim Peters (tim.one_at_comcast.net)
Date: 12/18/04 

Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:10:16 -0500

[Tim Peters]
>> [snipped another repetition of JSH's standard "Ullrich rant"]
>>
>> ...
>>
>> [Will Twentyman]
>>> Here's an idea: post links to the relevant articles so we can see the
>>> facts for ourselves. You have been proven to be less than credible
>>> about matters of (recent) history.

[Tim]
>> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.math/msg/3ecc5fc09d753b64
>>
>> Of course there's no slur to be found. "The incident" referred to
>> was in early October of 1999. You can find it easily. David
>> Ullrich was truly pissed at JSH for calling him a liar repeatedly,
>> and "a lapdog" at one point. JSH even apologized for that. As
>> David has explained endlessly ever since, he thought that delivering
>> "some sort of racial slur" (that's as specific as it ever got) would
>> be an object lesson in *why* people shouldn't talk about other
>> people the way JSH did. But he didn't do so. He said he thought it
>> would have been appropriate to do so, and that's the extent of it.

[David Kastrup]
> You are already falling victim to JSH's propaganda.

It seems to me that when I was younger, people generally showed more skill
in applying Occam's Razor <wink>.

> Here is the sentence: "But I do recall that the "game" you were playing
> was such that it seemed to me a perfectly appropriate reply would be
> some sort of racial slur - someone talked me out of that." Note that
> Ullrich _never_ claimed that a racial slur was appropriate in any way,
> he said that a racial slur seemed to fit with what JSH was dealing out:
> and this exactly because it was inappropriate to start with.

As you just quoted, "some sort of racial slur" "seemed to me" "a perfectly
appropriate reply". Unless you attach surprising meaning to the difference
between "a" and "some sort of" here, "Ullrich _never_ claimed that a racial
slur was appropriate in any way" just doesn't jibe with the quote calling
"some sort of racial slur" "a perfectly appropriate reply".

I understand and appreciate the different contexts in which "appropriate"
can be applied here, and I *believe* I understand what David meant at the
time: that responding to JSH's baseless hurtful insults with "some sort of
racial slur" would be a reply-in-kind that perhaps JSH could understand --
not specifically to hurt him, but as a way to get him to understand how his
hurtful words sometimes made others feel. That's arguably appropriate so
far as it goes. I happen to believe it's always wrong to use such speech in
public, and from that more-distant view it would have been inappropriate to
my eyes had he done so. Since he didn't so, I figure to his eyes too.

> And even in this context, he let himself easily be convinced otherwise.

And I accept that he decided against it on his own (as he says).

> And it did not quite seem like he ever actually contemplated putting
> his impression ever into action: sounds more like he was told "you
> should be ashamed to even think of it".

>> I don't agree it would have been appropriate,

> Agree with who? How do you make from the above that Ullrich would
> claim that racial slurs are an appropriate thing?

I don't want to repeat the "perfectly appropriate" quote again.

>> but there's nothing objectionable about discussing its
>> appropriateness.
>>
>> Well, except, apparently, to JSH. Of course there's no shortage of
>> people who have slung actual racial insults at JSH.

> There is no shortage of racial insults JSH himself has flung at
> others.

Or of insults of other kinds. But I don't expect civil behavior from JSH.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: JSH: Funding, real world, not fantasy
    ... David Kastrup wrote: ... >> Ullrich was truly pissed at JSH for calling him a liar repeatedly, ... >> people the way JSH did. ... for David Ullrich talking about a racial slur being the appropriate ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: ? -- JSH related
    ... If JSH hadn't discussed it in a public forum, ... That same public forum in which JSH attacked and abused David repeatedly ... Is JSH claiming that any of Divid's mathematics was wrong? ...
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  • Re: JSH: Funding, real world, not fantasy
    ... >> Ullrich was truly pissed at JSH for calling him a liar repeatedly, ... >> David has explained endlessly ever since, ... >> people the way JSH did. ... Then he argued that his complaint would be because ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: Object ring: corrected definition
    ... David C. Ullrich writes: ... [something, who cares?] ... method (thanks, JSH!): ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: JSH: Funding, real world, not fantasy
    ... >> David has explained endlessly ever since, ... >> people the way JSH did. ... >that a racial slur seemed to fit with what JSH was dealing out: ... How do you make from the above that Ullrich would ...
    (sci.math)