Re: infinity

On 7 Aug 2005 19:49:43 -0700, snapdragon31 wrote:

> Dave Seaman wrote:
>> > There is no such a time that the vase would be empty.

>> Wrong. Noon is such a time. If you disagree, name a ball that is in the
>> vase at noon.

>> > I hope you can see that the argument "All balls are removed before
>> > noon." alone is not sufficient to claim that the vase is empty at noon.

>> You keep asserting this, but you have never given any hint as to what it
>> is that makes you think such a thing. What is the reasoning behind your
>> outlandish claim?

> It would be easier for you to see if the operation add only 1 ball (not
> 10) and then take out 1 ball. Assuming that we have 1 ball in the vase
> initially. You can see that no matter how many times there is always
> one ball in the vase. The number on the ball in the vase always
> changes.

No, you have merely shown that there is always a ball in the vase after
each operation. But since there is no operation taking place at noon,
your argument is not sufficient to show that there is a ball in the vase
at noon.

> At 11:59 Ball 1 is in the vase
> At 11:59:30 Ball 2 is added and ball 1 is removed. Ball 2 remains in
> the vase.
> At 11:59:45 Ball 3 is added and ball 2 is removed. Ball 3 leaves in
> the vase.

> All ball comes into the vase will eventually moved out from the vase
> but at no time the vase is empty. Therefore, the vase can never be
> empty. Are you telling me after an infinite steps the vase will become
> empty? How? My suggestion would be after an infinite number of steps,
> there would still be 1 ball left in the vase. Can you give me a
> counter example?

Again, when you say "at no time", you actually mean "at no time before
noon." In fact, each ball is removed before noon and therefore the vase
is empty at noon.

Yes, I am telling you that the vase becomes empty at noon, because B(0) =
sum_{n=1^oo} B_n(0) = 0. Do the math.

>> You also keep ignoring my question. If you think the vase is not empty
>> at noon, then what is the number of a ball that remains in the vase?

> Not be able to name the number of a ball remains in the vase does not
> mean that the vase is empty. You can keep all the balls and only take
> away whatever ball I name at the very last step. It does not prove
> anything, right? I can prove that the number of balls grow
> indefinitely, but you cannot prove that the vase is empty.

>> As long as you keep ignoring my question and refuse to provide any
>> supporting argument of your own, we will never make any progress.

You still have not answered my question, and you still have not provided
a supporting argument of your own. I rest my case.

--
Dave Seaman
Judge Yohn's mistakes revealed in Mumia Abu-Jamal ruling.
<http://www.commoncouragepress.com/index.cfm?action=book&bookid=228>
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... The only critical time dependency is that each ball to be inserted shall ... the vase is empty at noon of anything of any balls ... An affirmative answer confirms that the vase is empty at noon. ... given the times of insertions and removals. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... the vase, is consistent with the fact that no balls are removed at noon? ... The only relevant question is "According to the rules set up in the ... is each ball inserted before noon also removed before noon?" ... An affirmative answer confirms that the vase is empty at noon. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... Does Han claim that there is any ball put in that is not taken out? ... the vase empties". ... But in order for the vase to transition from not-empty ... If the vase ever became empty, ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... Does Han claim that there is any ball put in that is not taken out? ... the vase empties". ... If the vase ever became empty, ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: infinity
    ... Number of balls in the vase at noon is f= OO. ... Unfortunately, if infinity gets involved, this statement alone is not sufficient to claim the vase is empty before noon. ... ball) is in the vase. ... You also keep ignoring my question. ...
    (sci.math)