Re: infinity

cbrown@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx said:
> Tony Orlow (aeo6) wrote:
>
> > Exactly how many balls are inserted, that is, which is the last ball inserted
> > at or before noon? Can you say exactly what (it) is?
>
> The reason that I can't answer your question isn't because I don't
> know, or simply can't say; it's because I don't understand what you're
> asking for.
>
> You seem to assume there is an obvious meaning to the phrase "the last
> ball"; and that therefore I should be able to name this unique thing
> (your use of the word "the" suggests that there would be only one).
>
> I think I could understand your meaning better if you could answer the
> question "when is the last time /before noon/ at which it can be said
> 'it is 1/(2^n) seconds before noon' for some finite natural number n?"
>
> That question is a bit simpler; it has nothing to do with vases, balls,
> or numbers of balls, or adding or subtracting infinities.
>
> Perhaps if you could answer that question, I could understand what you
> mean by "the last ball inserted".
>
> Cheers - Chas
>
>
If you claim the vase becomes empty, then there must be a last ball removed to
cause that situation. You cannot identify this ball, but insist on your
opponents identifying a ball that remains. I ask you, how many balls you have
inserted, because the ball that has been in the vase the longest is 1/10 of the
number of that ball. Which ever ball you can imagin ebing the last removed,
call it n, there are nine times as many NOT removed, from n+1 through 10n. So,
I am asking you exactly how many balls you have inserted into your vase, so I
can tell you which ones remain. That's only fair.
--
Smiles,

Tony
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... The only critical time dependency is that each ball to be inserted shall ... the vase is empty at noon of anything of any balls ... An affirmative answer confirms that the vase is empty at noon. ... given the times of insertions and removals. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... The mathematics used in the balls and vase problem ... Each ball is put into the vase at a specific ... You think to maniuplate limits in your argumentst. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... labelled ball, for example the ball labelled 15, is in the vase at that ... That seems contradictory to me. ... If we had an upper bound on the set of naturals, then if n is a natural ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... -1/n, where n is a natural number, there are balls in the vase. ... for which we can say "that ball was placed in the vase at time t". ... You cannot proceed to noon without inserting infinite balls, and you cannot empty the vase before noon. ... The only times which may proceed using only finite naturals are those finitely before noon, but at none of those times does the vase empty. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... Tony Orlow wrote: ... But, no infinite values are allowed i the experiment, so this cannot happen, and noon is excluded. ... An affirmative confirms that the vase is empty at noon. ... It is a good deal less inane and less nonsensical than trying to maintain, as TO and his ilk do, that a vase from which every ball has been removed before noon contains any balls at noon that have not been removed. ...
    (sci.math)