Re: what makes it true?

mensanator@xxxxxxx wrote:

>
> lhlhsand@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>> Are mathematical statements considered true (or false) independent of
>> whether or not they've been proven? If so, then what exactly is it
>> that makes them true (or false), if not the proof?
>
> There are things that are true that cannot be proved.

I think that's his question. I've been in some (unpleasant)
discussions where my opponent has disagreed violently with
your statement. They assert that if it can't be proved,
then it is neither true nor false. I agree with you, because
it sure seems like God or an angel could know some fact
(like the truth of GRH) which we may never be able to prove.
Since my opponents were usually atheists, this argument
didn't hold much water with them. (In fact, I had no luck
trying to explain that I didn't mean _my_ God, but just
some sort of absolute (or "relatively absolute") sentience.)

So back to the posters question: What _makes_ the fact true?
According to my opponents, it's the existance of the proof
that makes something true. According to me, the fact's
truth is something inherent in the fact.

Bart
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: what makes it true?
    ... >> you opponents were not mathematicaly knowledegable ... > claim that the type of god didn't matter. ... I strongly disagree that there is such a thing as absolute truth. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: what makes it true?
    ... > it sure seems like God or an angel could know some ... > some sort of absolute (or "relatively absolute") ... > According to my opponents, ... > truth is something inherent in the fact. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: what makes it true?
    ... Bart Goddard wrote: ... > some sort of absolute (or "relatively absolute") sentience.) ... > According to my opponents, it's the existance of the proof ... But if all truth were provable, ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: what makes it true?
    ... >> you opponents were not mathematicaly knowledegable atheists then. ... > claim that the type of god didn't matter. ... > absolute truth" is an absolute truth. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: The logic of atheism
    ... modern ones who claim Christianity's basic error is assuming God ... By the way theologians of many stipes have for thousands of years ... I know who many of the opponents of logical and rational thought are. ... Avoid agitated replies? ...
    (talk.atheism)