Re: what makes it true?

> mensanator@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
> >
> > lhlhsand@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >> Are mathematical statements considered true (or
> false) independent of
> >> whether or not they've been proven? If so, then
> what exactly is it
> >> that makes them true (or false), if not the proof?
> >
> > There are things that are true that cannot be
> proved.
>
> I think that's his question. I've been in some
> (unpleasant)
> discussions where my opponent has disagreed violently
> with
> your statement. They assert that if it can't be
> proved,
> then it is neither true nor false. I agree with you,
> because
> it sure seems like God or an angel could know some
> fact
> (like the truth of GRH) which we may never be able to
> prove.
> Since my opponents were usually atheists, this
> argument
> didn't hold much water with them. (In fact, I had no
> luck
> trying to explain that I didn't mean _my_ God, but
> just
> some sort of absolute (or "relatively absolute")
> sentience.)

you opponents were not mathematicaly knowledegable atheists then. Goedel's incompleteness theorem states that there are statements that are true yet cannot be proved. If your atheist friends claim that if some thing can't be proved then it is neither true nor false then they are 100% wrong. However your argument for the existence of such unprovable truths is equally false. The existence of such unprovable statements doesn't depend on what any type of god (which I, as an atheist strongly think does not exist) knows or doesn't know. You can learn more about Goedel's incompletness theorem in many logic books. However theology will not get you far...


>
> So back to the posters question: What _makes_ the
> fact true?
> According to my opponents, it's the existance of the
> proof
> that makes something true. According to me, the
> fact's
> truth is something inherent in the fact.
>
> Bart
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: what makes it true?
    ... >> you opponents were not mathematicaly knowledegable ... > claim that the type of god didn't matter. ... I strongly disagree that there is such a thing as absolute truth. ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: what makes it true?
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    (sci.math)
  • Re: what makes it true?
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