Re: Online poker RNG...

Gerald Helmling wrote:

Is it possible that, as I'm playing online, any of the other players
are cheating by way of predicting the order of the cards in the
"shuffled" deck?

It's highly unlikely, given the wake-up call potential investors
received years ago from Paradise. Methods now are secret.
And, at, at least, one site, that I know of, the code is checked
and certified as generating pseudorandom deals by paid, qualified,
outside agencies.

A few (some math, some poker) truths to keep in mind as you answer:

1. Many sites use an RNG algorithm based on 2^32. Isn't that pretty
easily susceptible to brute-force attacks from someone who has a
program relying on distributed computing?

This aspect of running a site is crucial. Realize that in brick-and-mortar
games,
the (hand-shuffled) deals are almost always biased (if the table is not
using a
Shufflemaster). In fact, true random deals are much more likely to be
encountered
on-line. So, the casino player will "feel" a difference. Hence, it is
critically important
for on-line casinos to get it right, since it will be different.

2. In the most popular type of online poker (Texas Hold 'Em), there are
four rounds of betting, and the most important three rounds come AFTER
(a) each player gets two (face-down) cards and (b) three face-up cards
are dealt on the table -- SO, if the cheateer is, say, the third player
to be dealt cards at a table of ten players, then he will know the 3rd
and 13th cards (i.e. the two cards he's been dealt) as well as the
21st, 22nd and 23rd cards (the three dealt face-up immediately
following the two distributed to each player).

Give it a rest. There is always the possibility of cheating by two or
more players, which is more likely in a brick-and-mortar setting,
since casinos don't give much of a darn about anything except
the rake. Collusion does not immediately affect the bottom line.

Someone raised the specter of cheaters who are so good,
their actions would be undetectable at the table. Well an on-line
site such as Poker Stars, has ways of detecting such collusion
forensically, which is impossible in a B&M setting.

Another inhibiting factor, keeping good players from cheating,
is that, if exposed, they become outcasts in the community. Few
partnerships last forever. In my experience, by the way, in
Atlantic City, there was collusion.

So, I guess my question is: how easily would someone be able -- either
by brute-force run-through of all possible combinations of "deck
arrangements" with those 5 cards in those specific spots, or by some
sort of reverse-engineering, or whatever -- to conclude the sequence of
cards in the deck (which, of course, would give him knowledge of
everyone's cards, as well as the two cards left to be dealt)?

And, for that matter, a related question: there's a piece of software
currently on the market (Check out pokerrng.com.) which claims that, if
a player enters into the software the details of a few thousands
recently dealt hands, the software will "synch" with the poker system's
RNG well enough to predict three of the five cards (not suits, but
values, which is enough to be dangerous!) left to be dealt! Is this
even plausible? Do I need to be afraid of this type of thing?

Anything online has inherent pitfalls, and cheating is -- both online
and offline -- a fact of life, but there's a certain level of security
I'd like, and I wonder if I'm jumping at shadows or rightly
concerned...

You are jumping at shadows.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Madness Network + Rotschreck is too good!
    ... large number of cards have been printed. ... card for any deck worried about specific minions. ... worth diversifying into Dementation stealth (Confusion or Mind Tricks, ... Valerius player or with another player to kill Valerius". ...
    (rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad)
  • Re: Tournement Report: ECQ Hungary 2007
    ... Or they cannot sort cards in their decks and count ... do if your player will notice that his deck has a different number ... decklists in such cases to determine what's wrong. ...
    (rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad)
  • Re: Article about Cold Decks
    ... would think nothing was wrong when a player decided to switch a deck of cards ... But, numerous 'COLD DECK' artists perform this by themselves, as ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • RE: card dealing
    ... If you are interested in learning about casino games get John Scarne’s ... down the column dealing the first four cards to Player-Banker-Player-Banker. ... Card five is either given to Player or Banker ... and pre-arrange the deck! ...
    (microsoft.public.excel.programming)
  • Tournament Report: Legacy of Powermonger (Argentina)
    ... the Enkidu player was having ... Gangrel deck was slowly building an army of PRO ... Antitribu ... Library: (90 cards) ...
    (rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad)