Re: An uncountable countable set

Han.deBruijn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Randy Poe wrote:

Tony Orlow wrote:
Randy Poe wrote:
Tony Orlow wrote:
Han de Bruijn wrote:
Virgil wrote:

In article <d12a9$451b74ad$82a1e228$6053@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Han de Bruijn <Han.deBruijn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Randy Poe wrote, about the Balls in a Vase problem:

It definitely empties, since every ball you put in is
later taken out.
And _that_ individual calls himself a physicist?
Does Han claim that there is any ball put in that is not taken out?
Nonsense question. Noon doesn't exist in this problem.

That's the question I am trying to pin down. If noon exists, that's when
the vase supposedly empties,
Why does the existence of noon imply there is a time
which is the last time before noon?

It doesn't.
I never said it did. When did I say that?
I was responding to Han, who said that "If noon exists, that's when
the vase empties".

HdB never said such a thing.

Sorry. At the time, perhaps I cut and pasted, but can't see now from where. However, your retort to Virgil's challenge was that his logic was incorrect because "Noon doesn't exist in this problem." That implies that if noon existed, he might have a point.


Noon exists.

Sure. By dogma. Randy Pope is infallible.

See? Your position now is that noon doesn't exist.


But in order for the vase to transition from not-empty
to empty, there would have to be a last non-empty
moment. That would be the last time before noon.

Aha. As clear as a klontje.

What's that, a type of mud?


I will offer this simple
logical argument. If the vase ever became empty, it would be because one
ball was removed,
Hence my continued statement that the vase does not
"become empty". It is non-empty at certain times and
empty at others. There is no transitional moment.

Nature does not jump, Leibnitz said.

Leibniz lived in reality. Is that a necessary requirement?


Noon is the first moment at which the vase is empty.

But noon is not the transitional moment. There's no
time just before noon where the transition happened.

Wow ! And _that_ calls himself a physicist ...

Han de Bruijn


The time was not before that moment, but it was not after it either. Therefore we cannot make any judgments as to when it happened. That's transfinitology for you.

Tony
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... The only critical time dependency is that each ball to be inserted shall ... the vase is empty at noon of anything of any balls ... An affirmative answer confirms that the vase is empty at noon. ... given the times of insertions and removals. ...
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  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... the vase, is consistent with the fact that no balls are removed at noon? ... The only relevant question is "According to the rules set up in the ... is each ball inserted before noon also removed before noon?" ... An affirmative answer confirms that the vase is empty at noon. ...
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  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... Does Han claim that there is any ball put in that is not taken out? ... the vase empties". ... But in order for the vase to transition from not-empty ... If the vase ever became empty, ...
    (sci.math)
  • Re: infinity
    ... Number of balls in the vase at noon is f= OO. ... Unfortunately, if infinity gets involved, this statement alone is not sufficient to claim the vase is empty before noon. ... ball) is in the vase. ... You also keep ignoring my question. ...
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  • Re: An uncountable countable set
    ... Does Han claim that there is any ball put in that is not taken out? ... the vase supposedly empties, since it doesn't do before then. ... If the vase were not empty after noon, someone ought to be able to say ...
    (sci.math)