Re: Math as Religion

Nick wrote:
"Stephen Montgomery-Smith" <stephen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:nvu4h.1056171$084.954191@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Timothy Golden BandTechnology.com wrote:

Mathematics is not a religion is it?
Why people adopt the religious attitude is baffling.
By challenging the fundamentals that have been layed down a type of
progress can be made that far rivals the usual progression of adding a
branch to a branch of the tree.
This is a statement on the human mind. The mathematician is most immune
to emotional argumentation, yet to claim an inadequacy at the base of
the tree hurts badly and well it should, for if the inadequacy is a
reality then all of the mathematicians who have been hoodwinked have
suffered from the social instinct of mimicry. The mathematician who
claims immunity will have to accept this lower accusation and therefor
should remain open to such possibilities.

Such possibilities have to be met with clear criticism from the
defenders of the existing tree.
The ease with which you do so is a measure of your own abilities.
If the truth is so clear cut there should be no problem arriving at it
with honest discussion.
Otherwise your math is just a religion:

The book has been written.
One must preserve the book.

-Tim


Hi Tim,

I actually think that you make a very valid point. I also have argued these kinds of positions. I think that there is only so much depth to the foundations of mathematics, and that ultimately its basis cannot be proved.

I do accept mathematics as truth, but I also accept that my position is ultimately an act of faith. In other words, I disagree with you that mathematics is at heart mere mimicry, but I concede that I have no foolproof argument against your assertion. The best argument that I can come up with is that the rules of mathematics seem to be universally accepted by all humans, even across cultures, and that a mathematical argument has that "ring of truth" about it that sits comfortably with my soul.


I see that this is your view of Maths or math http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen/mathematics.html

Touche!!!

You are an applied mathematician - but you can hardly expect that of a pure mathematician.

No. I am a pure mathematician. http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen/preprints/. The only work of mine which has found any practical use, as far as I know, is a screensaver that I wrote for Linux: http://www.math.missouri.edu/~stephen/software/#polyominoes - it found an unexpected use in the design of phased array radars.

But your argument is totally utilitarian. One can imagine telling that to an engineer but how would mathematics attract the brightest of students if it was just simply a faith.

No. I think that my argument is exactly the opposite to how you have characterized it. Certainly what initially attracted me to mathematics was its shear beauty. I think also for a long time it conveyed a sense of inner truth to me, but since studying mathematical logic, and thinking a lot about its true foundations, I lost this sense. At least I lost the sense that it is THE truth.

But also, even though I hold mathematics to represent truth as an act of faith, I still hold it to represent truth. Do not minimize my strong feelings for a subject simply because I hold its basic tenants as an act of faith, not as an act of certainty.


I believe that in Soviet Russia many people chose to study mathematics and other pure sciences for the reason that it allowed them to think independently - I hardly imagine that they would have done that if they were simply following an orthodoxy.

Me neither.
.

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