Re: I agree with gödel and matheyasevich : Mathematics is too hard for mathemat

On Jun 20, 6:18 pm, quasi <q...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:41:55 -0700, bit188
<mari...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Jun 20, 3:18 pm, tommy1729
<tommy1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
btw wich unproven discoveries are you talking
about ???

DID RIEMANN NEED EVIDENCE FOR HIS HYPOTHESE ???

now he did not !!! its famous without proof

just as fermats last theorem before it was
solved
and after it was solved.

tommy1729

"Fame" isn't the point. If you think it is, then
you shouldn't be
doing mathematics.

To very many mathematicians (perhaps most), both
past and current,
fame _is_ the point. Sure, the beauty of the ideas,
the excitement of
discovery, the challenge of finding a proof --
these are all major
factors, but without the potential for recognition
(and possibly even
immortality), very few would devote themselves with
full intensity.

And proof IS neccesary; you can't just go off of
intuition.

I disagree. You first need a sense of what to
prove. You need a vision
of what the important relationships actually are.
Even if you are
working on a known conjecture, you often need to
make claims, not yet
proven, as you proceed. Thus, you are making lots
of sub-conjectures
which then become subgoals in your attack on the
problem. The point is
that the ability to make insightful, meaningful
conjectures is a
critical talent, independent of the ability to
construct a proof.
Moreover, when spawning conjectures, you often _do_
just go off on
intuition.

Proof sets mathematics on a firm foundation --
this way, there is no room for
doubt, and we can assure ourselves that a
statement is, in fact, true.

Agreed. In that sense, math is absolute. Correctly
proved theorems
live for all time.

Still, discovery typically precedes proof.

quasi

I completely agree -- intuition comes first. What I
meant by "you
can't go off of intuition" is that intuition is
nothing to mathematics
without proof. I wholeheartedly agree that intuition
is extremely
important, and one cannot appreciate the math without
understanding.


no you dont agree !!!

you just see quasi doesnt agree with you !!

rather with me !

so you just change your mind !!!

THERE IS NO COMPLICATED ( LONG ) PROOF WICH PROOFS DIRECTLY , THEY ALL HAVE LEMMACONJECTURES WICH HAVE TO BE CONJECTURE FIRST BEFORE PROVEN !

although i understand the importance of proof.

intuition comes first.

as "proven" ( historicly not mathematicly )
bye riemanns hypothese.

riemann spent a lot of time on his search for the proof of his hypothese.

despite not finding a proof , it got famous anyway.

and Riemann is considered a good mathematician despite the lack of the proof.

( although of course he did proof alot of other stuff and did a lot of other work )

the same applies to diophantus and fermat.

saying fame isnt the point is and thinks require no intuition conjectures but direct proof is like saying:

riemann just wanted to be popular and couldnt even prove his hypothese so the hypothese is worthless and he was not a good mathematician.

or andrew wiles proof is bad because he makes to many lemma conjectures , instead of proving fermat "directly".

furthermore

some conjectures are unprovable.

as showed bye gödel and matheyasevich.

unprovable , undecidable or uncomputable.

yet they can be important.

my guess is that you are too young to understand all this.

you dont know what you are saying here.

i think people should be 18 to post on a forum anyways.

since you dont understand the importance of lemma's / subconjectures in proofs ; i seriusly doubt if you are really so " talented " as you claim to be.

and i think you got caried away in the critic the first poster gave to me.

he didnt even understand the joke of the title ; the parody.

rather he prefered to insult me of not proving "discoveries" whatever that may mean.

instead of making me look silly , he made a fool of himself not seeing the joke.

and in some strange way he gives the impression i dont
value proof.

which is a lie !!!

and you pick on to it.

thanks quasi for putting him on his place.

so go learn to tie your laces boy, before you post silly comments.

or at least think twice.

and dont pretend to agree with people who have just corrected you !!

its suckup.

tommy1729
.

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