Re: Ullrichism; Was: a theory of countable reals

Stephen J. Herschkorn a écrit :
David C. Ullrich wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:52:58 -0400, "Stephen J. Herschkorn"
<sjherschko@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



David C. Ullrich wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:52:29 +0900, "toshiaki" <farawfu@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



On Jul 16, 10:33 am, "toshiaki" <fara...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[...]
I think that a complete ordered field is given in this way.
What you think doesn't matter - there does not exist a
countable complete ordered field.

"What you think doesn't matter" comes off as gratuitously derogatory.

Under the circumstances, '"What you think doesn't matter" comes off as gratuitously derogatory.' comes off as either remarkably
dense or very very curious. It's hard to believe that you haven't
figured out that I really don't care about your opinion on such
questions, but if you _have_ figured that out it's hard to
understand what you think you're accomplishing here.



The point is, as we have determined earlier, David is a top-notch mathematician, but he has a very poor grasp of the subtleties of language. In particular, he seems to be completely unaware of the insults and negative connonations his remarks carry. I point them out to help David recognize this weakness, with the hope that he might want to become a more civil contribuitor here (and likely be more respectful of his students). A decent human being would want to improve in that way.

At one point, Michael Press wrote:

As for history I have never seen David Ullrich speak more harshly than a situation called for.


Others echoed this opinion. I conclude that some others are not aware of linguistic subtleties as well,

Another possibility is that you are unaware, for instance, f the subleties inherent in the whole exchange. A poster writing "My opinion is that A is true", where there is a (classical, btw) proof that A is false, has earned more than the reply "in fact, A is false", but something in the line of "in math, opinion is low-valued" or, in Ullrich words "your opinion has no influence on the matter, and nobody cares for it"

so I think it worthwhile to point out
such gratuitous insults to them as well. So the fact that David "does not care" really has little bearing here, since David is not the sole reader. However, I would hope David would care to enough to improve his communication skills when they contain a rather overwhelming flaw whereof he is unaware.

He could be aware of it. You never recognize sarcasm, do you?


Back to David:

Oh wait, I forgot. You're protecting the children.


I am very concerned about education. I have seen too many lousy teachers at the university level. I expect David and some other teachers here know their math and can present it quite cogently, but that they thwart quite a few of their students' progress by putting them down, probably unconsciously so. My hope is that such teachers who participate here may want to reconsider the way they interact with their students.

Maybe. Maybe not. Some students only deserve what they get.



Good for you. The internet is a very dangerous place - you can find preverts, thieves, my gosh if you're not careful you might find someone
saying that your opinion doesn't matter.



Both this paragraph and the remark, "comes off as either remarkably dense," again are quite uncivil.

But this only your opinion again. And, quite uncivilly, I will repeat : "your opinion doesn't matter".


Had David eliminated them entirely,
the content of David's post would have remained intact.


But the fact that you are remarkably dense would remain too...




Here are some more civil ways to get the point across.

"I am afraid you are mistaken. There does not exist a countable complete ordered field."
"You are mistaken. There does not exist a countable complete ordered field."
"There does not exist a countable complete ordered field."


I intend all of this as constructive criticism. I am trying to help others learn how to communicate, in particular in the instruction of mathematics, in a humane and construcitve fashion, just as my posts are often attempts to help others here with their mathematics. As with any post, neither David nor anyone else has to heed these observations.

It is unfortunate if David takes these criticisms as barbs, for I do not intend them such. However, I feel no regret if he does, as David has often displayed discourtesy towards others in this forum.


Never unearned for

In other
words, what goes around comes around.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Y&R ~ Personal Responsibility
    ... manners and will admit when they got something wrong. ... Real men, in my opinion, admit ... mistakes, learn from them and move on. ... David, jeez, ya didn't sign up for this, didja? ...
    (rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs)
  • Re: Y&R ~ Personal Responsibility
    ... In article, T. David Bamford ... manners and will admit when they got something wrong. ... Real men, in my opinion, admit ... mistakes, learn from them and move on. ...
    (rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs)
  • Re: Y&R ~ Personal Responsibility
    ... manners and will admit when they got something wrong. ... Real men, in my opinion, admit ... mistakes, learn from them and move on. ... David, jeez, ya didn't sign up for this, didja? ...
    (rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs)
  • Re: David Friedman
    ... Since David does not appear to hold strong "this is the way you should do it" opinions about SF Composition, you will likely _never_ see him _start_ an argument with his own opinions. ... I want to hear you make bold assertions; assertions not mired in qualifications and "could-be"s; assertions not safely hidden behind an impregnable fortress of inarguable facts and reasoning; assertions that venture out into the open, where maybe, just maybe, there's some interesting substance to be challenged and discussed. ... Further, given what he has said of his home life and childhood, argumentation was treated much as a sport -- something that one can learn to do well -- and has well learned that disputation does not imply dislike. ... Some people seem to feel that it's almost their duty to have an opinion on everything _and_ that their opinion is as 'good' as anyone else's _and_ that everyone needs to hear their opinion and should 'respect' it. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: Was there Really a Holocaust?
    ... What David wrote is available for everyone to read. ... It's not a matter of who "agrees", Ray. ... Hint, whenever Ray says "it's not a matter of opinion", he means it's ...
    (talk.origins)