Re: the Mathematics of Chess- James Patunas

On Mar 30, 4:57 pm, amy666 <tommy1...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
mensanator wrote :





On Mar 29, 3:15�pm, amy666 <tommy1...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Chess is a wonderful game, and i respect your
concern, although i am quite fond of mathematics
and
don't quite appreciate you thinking math dumbs
chess
down. �of course there is mathematics involved.
�math
is reason and logic. �how do you think that a
computer can do so well... DEEP BLUE! �is that
the
name of that godforsaken machine?

- James Patunas

as the OP said some people consider all brain
activity = math.

that is a dumb idea , though also stated by smart
people.

there is no formula for chess.

and most player rated above 2400 and a phd in math
will agree ...

unless they are so obsessed with math that they see
math in everyting of course ( brainactivity or models
-> math )

so an 8 yo with an elo of 1950 uses math ??

you know that aint true.

he might even be terrible at math.

So? Just because chess can be evaluated
mathematically doesn't imply anyone actually
plays that way. And the fact no one plays that
way doesn't invalidate the statement.

yes it does.

No, it doesn't.


you cant play chess mathematical , nobody does and nobody can.

Computers can.




ive seen many people in chess clubs and rubic cube
clubs.

and i can assure you : math rubics cube chess and
iq are independent.

Sounds like you have no clue as to what actually
constitutes intelligence.

so you dont consider those 4 a sign of intelligence ?

IQ testing doesn't measure intelligence. The only thing
an IQ test measures is how high a score you can get on
an IQ test.


then i fear it is you who does not now what constitutes intelligence.

I know it when I see it. And what I see often does not
correlate with the results of some stupid test.


 Yet you believe it can

be measured.

i know people who are good at chess but have quite
a low iq and bad at math.

Obviously, chess playing must not be considered
intelligence, then.

did i say that ? no only you did.

Yes, you did say that. You said they were of low IQ, hence,
not intelligent. Yet in the same breath you said they were
good at chess. Thus, you dodn't consider chess intelligence.


the different kind of intelligences should not be confused with eachother.

Yet you believe in the validity of IQ testing - which deliberately
attemps to make such confusion. As I said, you haven't a clue what
you're talking about.


chess should  not be confused with math , despite both are intelligent and require brain activity.

_I'm_ not the one who 's claiming poor math skills denies
intelligence,
that's _YOUR_ claim.








or vice versa.

one of those 4 talents or intrests does not lead to
the other 3 talents or intrest by definition.

that just gossip.

and same for classical music btw.

i know goths and metalheads who play chess and are
in math competitions.

now i know thats a bit rarer than other music
(thats why i gave the example) , but still a
signicifant part of %.

bobby fisher ( robert james fisher actually ) said
in an interview that he stopped school to do chess (
logical ) but more amazingly : he did not think he
would have gotten his diploma anyways.

despite his iq around 170 he is considered by lots
of people an idiot savant.

At least the idiot part.

so you say fisher was an idiot.

Idiot, Part I.

<Wikipedia>
Fischer gave the Worldwide Church of God $61,200 of his 1972
world championship prize money. However, 1972 was a disastrous
year for the church, as prophecies by Herbert W. Armstrong
were unfulfilled, and the church was rocked by revelations
of a series of sex scandals involving Garner Ted Armstrong.
Fischer, who felt betrayed and swindled by the Worldwide
Church of God, left the church and publicly denounced it.
</Wikipedia>

Idiot, Part II.

<Wikipedia>
He insisted he was still the true world chess champion,
and that for all the games in the FIDE-sanctioned World
Championship matches, involving Karpov, Korchnoi and Kasparov,
the outcomes had been pre-arranged. In a 2005 interview he
explained his attitude toward Kasparov: "Anyone who prepares
matches in advance and, especially, who plays contractual
games, is a liar and a dealer. I just call Kasparov a criminal."
</Wikipedia>

Idiot, Part III.

<Wikipedia>
The US Department of the Treasury had warned Fischer beforehand
that his participation was illegal as it violated President
George H. W. Bush's Executive Order 12810 that implemented United
Nations sanctions against engaging in economic activities in
Yugoslavia. In front of the international press, Fischer was
filmed spitting on the US order forbidding him to play. Following
the match, the department obtained an arrest warrant for him.
Fischer remained wanted by the United States government for the
rest of his life and never returned to the United States again.
</Wikipedia>



thus you dont know much about chess.

No, I don't play chess, but I never said anything about
Fischer's ability to play chess, just that he was an idiot.




HOWEVER I HAVE TO ADMIT :

that the probability that if your intrested in
chess / math / rubics cube / physics increases your
iq in general.

The premise that iq measures intelligence is false.

not everyone will agree on that.

Yeah, I know. There are clubs founded on the idea that a
high score on an IQ test makes them special. Doesn't make
them right.


you dont consider iq a sign of intelligence and you consider chess genius fisher an idiot.

Every been to a Mensa meeting? I have, several times.
Hillarious. Oh, and you're not helping your case by
spelling his name wrong. It's just as easy to get these
things right, you know.


let me guess : only the things you are good at represent and require intelligence ?!!

If I was hiring someone to troubleshoot digital logic, would
I look at their IQ results? Of course not. A good trouble-
shooter is a master at learning from feedback, something that
no IQ test can measure. That means there are aspects of
intelligence that are beyong simple IQ.




but not as much as believed and not in the other
direction ( iq -> chess )

So we dismiss any of your conclusions.

so i dismissed any of your conclusions , you simply dont value iq

That's right, IQ testing is quack science.

or bobby fisher

Or Bobby Fischer.

only do you accept the things you are good at as a form of intelligence.

I never said "only". Ask any Artificial Intelligence researcher
if he completely understands the nature of intelligence. If it was
understood, we would have machines that think by now, wouldn't we?

You don't see the conflict between not knowing what intelligence
is while pretending to be able to measure it?

What's your IQ?




regards

amy

amy

.

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