Re: "Statins caused my kidney failure"

From: Bill (xxx_at_yy.zz)
Date: 07/15/04 

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 20:22:50 GMT

"Zee" <zwalanga@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e5f4a9c2.0407150439.60e1336f@posting.google.com...
> "Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
news:<35pJc.520$sr5.152@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>...
> > "Zee" <zwalanga@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:e5f4a9c2.0407142121.5ac09a9e@posting.google.com...
> > > "Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
> > news:<EJhJc.1427$4L7.411@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>...
> > > > "Zee" <zwalanga@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:e5f4a9c2.0407140915.536f939c@posting.google.com...
> > > > > "Bill" <xxx@yy.zz> wrote in message
> > news:<GI3Jc.1762$ii.888@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com>...
> > > > >
> > > > > So Bill, I read the following to say:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.The goal of statin therapy is to reduce the odds of dying of a
heart
> > > > > attack or stroke, not just lower cholesterol numbers.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Despite millions spent on clinical trials, researchers could not
> > > > > prove lowering cholesterol had any effect on life expectancy.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. Pharmas need only prove to FDA the drug lowers cholesterol.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Someone needs to take a big broom to the FDA. They don't seem to be
> > > > > doing what you are paying them to do. Not that it's any different
for
> > > > > the Aussie, Kiwi or Canuck regulatory bodies.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please note, Bill: Dr. Wright is with the Cochrane Collaboration.
"Dr.
> > > > > Wright and his colleagues at the University of British Columbia
> > > > > contacted the authors of the three trials that did not publish the
> > > > > number of serious adverse events suffered by their study
participants.
> > > > > The reviewers have yet to receive the requested data. "
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you not see the truth of Wright's reasoning, and think if you
were
> > > > > he, or part of his team, you too (with your training) would be just
as
> > > > > suspicious?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am. Pityful English major that I am. I am suspicious.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I await your correction.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Zee
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ok. Here you go. There are numerous reports on statins saving lives.
But
> > even
> > > > if I take your source, who does not seem to have medical credentials,
in
> > the
> > > > article you quoted, here is what she says:
> > > >
> > > > "Statins clearly benefit diabetics and people with heart disease who
want
> > to
> > > > avoid a heart attack or stroke, as well as those who have already
suffered
> > one
> > > > and want to prevent another."
> > > >
> > > >
> >
http://www.medicalconsumers.org/pages/AlmostEverythingYouNeedtoKnowAboutStatinDrugs.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is just from your source. I quoted another of your souces
previously
> > > > which said pretty much the same thing. And I could do more of strongly
> > > > supporting the argument that statins save lives by strickly sticking
to
> > your
> > > > sources.
> > > >
> > > > I accept the fact that statins can cause problems for people. You seem
to
> > have
> > > > trouble accept the fact that statins can help a large class of people.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The first time you and I ever conversed in this medium you ran me
> > > down, ridiculed me, cut me to shreds and ended your scathing
> > > unwarranted attack by calling me a liar.
> >
> > I really don't think that is true either. Can you point out where I used
the
> > word "liar" with you. I remember calling Sharon a liar, but not you. I
usually
> > just say what you are claiming is false. And also provide a reference to
show
> > that this was a personal attack. Since I don't know what you are referring
to,
> > it is hard to respond.
> >
> > Bill
>
>
>
> Is this the same as "decreased overall mortality"?
>
> "decreased their *odds* of overall mortality within the *next five
> years*."
>
> If it is, then yes, you are right. I am wrong.
>
> I don't mind being wrong Bill. But it seems very important for you to
> prove me wrong. As TheMattFella pointed out some months ago.
>
> As if that was the point. To anything.
>
>
> Zee

 The answer to the first part is, yes. But no, it is not important to me to
prove YOU wrong, in fact painful unless you get nasty. It is important to
prove your point - that statins do not save lives - wrong using your own
sources. Not you.

Bill