Re: The Bull*** Parade

From: Bob (this one) (Bob_at_nospam.com)
Date: 08/10/04 

Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:50:07 -0400

Robert wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:10hfk76ajqven5f@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> fresh~horses wrote:
>>
>>> "Happy Dog" <happydog@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:<NiDRc.7241$Mq1.344313@news20.bellglobal.com>...
>
>>>> "Robert" <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:10hcvec6d7op1f@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Funny thing. I have family in Canada, some involved in
>>>>>> medicine. I know some others also involved. I know lots
>>>>>> more who aren't medfolk. They all together don't seem to
>>>>>> be anywhere near as worked up about their system as most
>>>>>> Americans seem to be. They have the choice of having the
>>>>>> state system or paying for whatever else they'd prefer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> Explanation for the wait times is simple and short:
>>> Conservative government cutbacks to funding=longer waiting
>>> times=the conservative agenda: open private clinics. However,
>>> these private for profit clinics receive public fudning,
>>> thereby strangling the public system further, and skim off the
>>> best medical personnel. Often for-profit facilities are owned
>>> by former conservative party cabinet ministers and physician
>>> consortia.
>>>
>>> Zee
>>
>> And yet, the infant mortality rate in Canada is lower than in the
>> US. Life expectancy in Canada is higher than the US.
>>
>> There's a difference between waits for things like elective
>> surgery and life-threatening conditions. It's one thing to say it
>> takes longer in Canada and leave it there. It's quite another to
>> say that it's on the non-serious, non-painful conditions that the
>> delays are longer. And how much longer? It's generally an issue
>> of convenience, not medical necessity that most of the hubbub is
>> about.
>>
>> It seems to be more about immediate gratification than urgency of
>> remedy. I know a woman who waited 60 days for a tubal ligation
>> in Canada. I'm married to her. Another who waited about the same
>> for cataract surgery. In Toronto, I drove a friend who had a
>> serious bleeding fibroid condition to an ER and they made the
>> people with sprained ankles and back pain sit and wait while they
>> took care of a real problem. Triage happens in all medical
>> facilities, and it should.
>>
>> I'm not asserting superiority of one system over another. I am
>> saying that a bit of balance in the viewpoints would be good. And
>> not have it be *only* a political discussion. That whole business
>> of labels for liberal and conservative ideologies is meaningless
>> nowadays. It has become a situation where entire packages of
>> ideas and notions are dismissed out of hand from both extreme
>> camps. The general foolishness looks like this: If somebody is
>> politically conservative, then they're trying to take the food
>> out of babies' mouths and they're only thinking about their
>> wallets. If they're politically liberal, they want to
>> redistribute all the money so everyone is equal and it's a
>> perpetual vacation on the backs os the rich. And it's all
>> foolishness constructed on the back of distortions and nasty
>> interpretations of good intent.
>>
>> Rather than namecalling, have a cup of tea and consider the ideas
>> at hand. Does the populace feel that medical care and medical
>> expenses need to be adjusted somehow? Fine. Ask them for ideas.
>> They're paying for it, it's ostensibly *for* them. The vast
>> preponderance of ideas will be unworkable, inefficient,
>> impractical or downright stupid. There will be some that can make
>> a difference.
>>
>> If it's broke, fix it. If some parts work fine, don't fix them.
>> If
>
>
> Socialists systems are not democratic and don't work from the
> bottom up. They are mandated by government officials and work their
> way down. They pass decrees which affect all individuals and leave
> those individuals with out any recourse but to vote with their
> feet.

Robert, you're so caught up in your ideological claptrap that you
can't see what you're saying here. What, in the US, laws are designed
from the bottom up? Courts work from the bottom up? What works from
the bottom up? What a plainly silly thing to say. All those rules and
regulations from the FDA, IRS, FCC, USDA, INS and all the rest of the
initial agencies come from the top down. That's the very nature of
government.

We vote for President and all the rest of the administration is
appointed. What bottom up?

>> some parts clearly work against the best interests of the
>> constituencies, fix them. But first, define what "broke" means.
>> Define what "works fine" means. Like all human institutions,
>> there will never be unanimous endorsement. Don't worry about the
>> past and who messed it up. Just fix it. Waits too long? If they
>> really are, then some modification of the system need to be
>> implemented. Meds too expensive? Same thing.
>
> Waits are too long in order to save money and if that is not right
> then please correct me. You must live with pain in order to save
> money.

You really haven't been paying attention in your political rants. My
suggestion is to calm down, stop leading with your ideology and ask
questions of people actually in the system.

> Meds cost money so they shift the costs by making more people wait
> even longer.

Canadians pay for their own prescriptions.

> Which hospitals do you want closed in order to afford the meds?
> Once you accept a socialistic system that gives up your right as an
> individual to object there is no way out.

What unalloyed crap. You've either never been to Canada or you closed
off all observation when you were there. There was just an election
where the whole complexion of the government changed. Where new
political affiliations were formed. Where different philosophies were
brought to bear and will be further extended. You're so busy shouting
that old stuff that you aren't paying attention.

> You either get more decronian with

I assume you mean "draconian."

> monetary policies or you just dump the whole system in the garbage
> heap. The Soviet Union did not modify their program as they just
> dumped it. Comrade Zee will never accept that.

This is a profoundly stupid observation matched only by the
comparison. Period. You obviously know as little about Russia and the
Soviet Union as you do about Canada.

>> Nowadays, we seem only to delegate blame.

Sweet Jeezus, was that right on the mark.

Bob

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