Re: Why Americans don't know what the rest of the world knows

From: Bob (this one) (Bob_at_nospam.com)
Date: 08/14/04 

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:58:08 -0400

C Kent wrote:

> "liaM" <cuddly@mindless.com> wrote in message
> news:cfkn5h$b8g$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr...
>
>>fresh~horses wrote:
>>
>>>"C Kent" <CKent@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>"liaM" <lhooq@email.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>How is terrorism fought ? by reacting to their threat in a climate of
>>>>>fear with war in distant lands and defensive barriers and partial
>>>>>abrogations of civil rights at home.
>>>>
>>>>It shoud be fought by simultaneously 1) KILLING any and all existing
>>>>terrorist, and 2) draining the swamps (i.e. conditions) that breed
>>>>terrorists (so there aren't so many you have to KILL in the future) by
>>>>promoting democratic governments educational reforms and free markets
>>>
>>>I think it would be better "fought" by not invading other countries
>>>for spurious and imperialistic reasons
>
> 9/11 is not a spurious or imperialistic reason

It isn't so much when talking about Afghanistan where the Taliban was
sheltering Bin Laden and his people. It surely is when talking about
Iraq with no WMD's, no ties to 9/11, no nukes.

That business about promoting free market conditions simply won't work
everywhere until there are vast and unforseeable changes worldwide. A
good number of cultures that I've been involved with don't like the
competitive/combative nature of it. Others are far more fierce about
trade and commerce than we are. Look at the markets and bazaars of the
Middle East and through Asia. Where tribal values apply, free markets
don't work because it generally is primarily a barter economy. Where
technology is not modern, expanding free markets don't work well
because they don't have the background needs like roads, vehicles,
secondary services and global savvy. Look at Russia.

It's a very difficult question, this business about minimizing the
breeding grounds for terrorists. Palestinians have lived in refugee
camps for more than a half century. Several Arab countries have more
money than they have any idea what to do with. And the Palestinians
still live in camps. There seems to be scarce sympathy sufficient to
move them to solve the problems. There isn't the premium on education
there that prevails in the more economically developed countries.
First big hurdle. Freedom isn't valued as much as conformity; to
family, to culture, to religion, to nation.

>>Unfortunately we have the Republican Junta to thank for giving the
>>terrorists 2 overwhelming reasons to hate us.
>
> Actually, it more the inaction of the previous democrat administration that
> would only show token responses [i.e. shooting 2 million dollar missles into
> empty tents and hitting camels in the ***] that gave the terrorist the
> bright idea that they could act without any real punishment.

C'mon. When the Marines were killed in Beirut, Reagan pulled the rest
out and had a gunboat shell the hillside above town. As impotent a
gesture as can be imagined. The point is that no administration has
done a particularly good job with terrorism and it's roots. It's new
stuff. We aren't used to that kind of fighting and we aren't
comfortable with it. We're more the John Wayne stand up and fight
types. It's a new world where the old conditions no longer apply.

>>Before the peoples of the world looked up to us. Now we are hated.
>>Imho we won't win peace by killing and exterminating the opposition.
>
> Actually, by definition, if the terrorist's are killed and exterminated then
> they can't bother U.S. --- which is the whole point.

It's essentially impossible to kill all the terrorists; we don't know
who or where they are. It behooves us to have friends around the world
who can get better info than was given to Bush before the Iraqi
invasion. Nobody had good info and that became obvious in fairly short
order. We don't know where to look. We don't know where the money
comes from. It appears that we're beginning to get more intel, but
it'll be years before we can have enough of the right characters on
the ground where they need to be.

It's a strange new time we're in. With more complexity than ever
before. On the positive side, we have more and better tools than ever
before.

Bob