Re: Pravachol verses Lipitor ?

From: Zee (fresh~horses_at_despammed.com)
Date: 09/14/04 

Date: 14 Sep 2004 16:17:30 -0700

Steve Marcus wrote:
> "Zee" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:ci6gnc$sf7@odah37.prod.google.com...
> >
> > Steve Marcus wrote:
> > > "Caploc" <caploc30@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:wow1d.30197$D7.10426@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > > >
> > > > > snip>
> > > > >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>Zee is bringing informed (by experience) and documented
> > information to
> > > > >>>>those contemplating taking this drug, and I hope she
continues
> > to do
> > > so.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>She is bringing highly one sided and biased information to a
> > forum
> > > where
> > > > >>>people are seeking help.

Take a course in media 101 councillor. And yes. I do mean councillor.
Counselor/councillor whichever you prefer you are neither, as I pointed
out in our previous threads of some months ago.

People are seeking help and getting help and they will continue to get
help. They have already been told the drugs were wonderful. They say
over and over they were not told of side effects, or if they were they
were downplayed. They have found out otherwise and want to know if
anyone knows anything about that.

Why yes. As a matter of fact. I do.

.
>
> You would pay an attorney. But not pay me, because although I am a
lawyer,
> I don't do litigation.

I use the word 'You' as theoretical plural. Too abstract for you?
(Specific singular).

> > > > >>>Any competent physician

> >
> > Aye there's the rub.
>
> Indeed. But there are safeguards, the legal system only being one of
them
> and in fact being the last resort.

Pah! You do whatever you can get away with until you're caught and then
I try to sue you. We all watch it on Survivor, and wonder why America
is considered garbage in garbage out by the rest of the world?

> >
> > will fully inform a
> > > > >>>patient of the potentially harmful side effects of any drug

Hindsight.

I can tell you Steve you'd be mincemeat in a courtroom. If that's all
you've got you might as well have phoned it in.

> > Provided the physician knows them.
>
> A competent physician is aware of all established potentially harmful
side
> effects.

More yada da yada da yada.

>
> > Provided the pharmaceutical company
> > hasn't suppressed them, provided it was looked at in the clincial
> > trials.
>
> Pharamceutical companies routinely publish reams of information re
> potentially harmful side effects, drug interactions, etc. for their
> products.

Have you followed anything of what is going on with pharma and lawsuits
by various attornies general Steve?

>
> > The serious side effects we are seeing were aftermarket and for
> > example the FDA still makes no warning about them.
>
> Because they haven't been established yet by published and peer
reviewed
> studies, as you are well aware. And, because the most likely will be
shown
> to occur (if at all) in a very, very small minority of people taking
statin
> drugs, there will be no bigger deal made of them than is made of the
current
> known potentially harmful side effects.

By you. As far as the cognitive side effects are concerned Australia
warned and called statins "drugs that make you forget" years ago. So
just because FDA hasn't done it means it doesn't exist? Germany refuses
to pay for Crestor and advises against it's use. Keep the blinkers on
Steve.

> > Wanna bet councillor?
>
> I have filled literally hundreds of prescriptions, and have never
failed to
> receive the appropriate paperwork. My neighbor, on the other hand,
has had
> it happen to her on several occasions, and has never failed to obtain
the
> appropriate paperwork before leaving the pharmacy. She simply had
enough
> sense to ask for the paperwork.

I could go to seven different pharmas and get seven differnet results,
including one or two that would refuse me anything until I made them
aware of my rights. And. It is fact, not conjecture: Information has
been supressed.

> So this loss of cognitive abilities is binary, like a light switch?

Yes actually it can be like a light switch. Off and on, but never
coming back to full candlepower. Upon reflection, I think now I was
often worse right after I took my statin. But then, that was superceded
by an overall complete irretrievable downward slide. Memory is muti
faceted. The thinking is that statins affect certain types of memory.
And then when they are not metabolized by a damaged liver properly,
they stay in the tissue. (Exanta?)

>>
> > Three years ago when Baycol was
> > recalled, and today.
>

> Are you aware of the fact that Baycol was recalled actually refutes
your
> position.

No. And I don't think the lawyers who have been trying unsuccessfully
to save Baycol's corporate bacon know about this either Steve.

> >> > Steve isn't listening. Unless of course he was always a hostile
> > aggressive inappropriately angry SOB. : )
>
> I would suggest that it is you who are not listening, and that it is
you who
> is bound and determined to cause more harm than has ever been caused
by
> precription statins. :o)

Suggest away. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>
> Again, I doubt that this binary effect (on one day/off the next day)
is the
> reality of the situation.

I dunno. Some days you seem pretty cogent. Other days you're FTD.

> > Incapable of recognizing, incapable of expressing what they
recognize,
> > and incapable of realizing their doctors may be wrong when they say
the
> > side effects are caused by their original condition ie) heart
disease.
>
> But capable of expressing it to you.

Capable of expressing it on about five chat boards--after the fact.
Steve people who are losing their ability to speak do what any
stutterer can confirm is done: they shut up. Coping. Let's ask those
who have hearing problems what kind of avoidance strategies they employ
until they learn better coping. But if you do not have Alzheimer's as
your doctor is telling you, or dementia, or are just getting older,
then you realize when you stop taking the drug, with a rush of relief
what was going on. Esp if you are lucky enough to get some help.

I have to send now. I'll try to finish later. If I feel like it.

Zee

>
> >
> >
> > But finally councillor, and again councillor, are you paid to go
into
> > the courtroom and present both sides of the argument? The other
side of
> > the argument, if that is how you wish to put it (I don't) is well
> > represented. We've got it councillor. Ad nauseum.
>
> Actually, you mean counseler. And no, I don't do courtrooms.
>
> >
> > Zee
>
> Steve
> --
> The above posting is neither a legal opinion nor legal advice,
> because we do not have an attorney-client relationship, and
> should not be construed as either. This posting does not
> represent the opinion of my employer, but is merely my personal
> view. To reply, delete _spamout_ and replace with the numeral 3
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > >>>>Ahem,
> > > > >>>>Cappy
> > > > >>>>(Still trying to out run the death grip clutches of Statin
> > therapy)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Sure.
> > > > Steve, I spent many a time lying in a hospital bed totally
> > exhausted and
> > > > in intense pain thinking that death would soon come knocking.
when
> > I was
> > > > eventually diagnosed as having a bad reaction to a statin and
the
> > drug
> > > > stopped I picked up and have never been back to hospital for
those
> > same
> > > > complaints, but those times are imprinted in my memory, that's
why
> > I am
> > > > still running.
> > > >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Steve
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > --
> > > The above posting is neither a legal opinion nor legal advice,
> > > because we do not have an attorney-client relationship, and
> > > should not be construed as either. This posting does not
> > > represent the opinion of my employer, but is merely my personal
> > > view. To reply, delete _spamout_ and replace with the numeral 3
> >

Relevant Pages
Loading