Re: New Doubts About Celebrex

From: listener (listener_at_nospam.net)
Date: 12/23/04 

Date: 23 Dec 2004 04:40:15 GMT

"Sophmoric" must be your word-for-the-week.

It's a shame that your personal tragedy continues to shut down your
brain. In your world, it seems, good news is bad news and bad news is
good news.

L.

"Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in
news:bwryd.620471$D%.108536@attbi_s51:

> Illustrations in-line below
>
> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns95C75D282EA75some1outthere@38.144.126.105...
>>
> snip
>
>> BTW, your last (insulting) comment was uncalled for.
>>
> see illustrations below
>
>> L.
>>
>> "Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in
>> news:_68yd.222795$5K2.183239@attbi_s03:
>>
>>> You know quite well, from 3 years of consistent postings that:
>>>
>>> 1) My husband was disabled due to adverse effects of 10 mg Lipitor
>>> over 4 years - and three years off the drug he remains disabled,
>>> with myopathy, mitochondrial damage, chronic excruciating pain,
>>> elevated CK, peripheral neuropathy, extreme short-term memory loss,
>>> cognitive decline, amnesia, aphasia, chronic fatigue, muscle
>>> wasting, and exhaustion.
>>>
>>> 2) Hundreds of tests and expert specialist consultations have served
>>> to rule out every other possible cause. His case has been
>>> documented in magazine articles, a book, and some research studies
>>> pending publication.
>>>
>>> 3) Many studies published in medical journals (in the FAQ I post
>>> occasionally on http://forum.ditonline.com/viewboard.php?BoardID=38)
>>> have subsequently verified that each of the adverse effects my
>>> husband experiences daily are definitely proven to be associated
>>> with Lipitor or other statins
>>>
>>> 4) No information was available or accessible at that time to alert
>>> doctors or patients to watch for myopathy, mitochondrial damage,
>>> chronic excruciating pain, elevated CK, peripheral neuropathy,
>>> extreme short-term memory loss, cognitive decline, amnesia, aphasia,
>>> chronic fatigue, muscle wasting, and exhaustion, much less the full
>>> constellation of symptoms, which affected and continue to affect my
>>> husband
>>>
>>> 5) Patients receiving Lipitor prescriptions recently consistently
>>> report that they are not warned about these side effects, nor that
>>> the damage becomes more permanent or longer lasting, in relation to
>>> the time they were on the drug. Further, patients who do experience
>>> some or all of these side effects consistently report that their
>>> doctors insist they are unaware of these side effects.
>>>
>>> 6) Ignorance of these side effects means greater harm for people who
>>> do experience them.
>>>
>>> 7) Education reduces fear and in this case reduces the potential
>>> damage to those experiencing these side effects
>>>
>>> Educated people do not run through the streets in fear because they
>>> learned something that will prevent them harm. They use the
>>> information to protect themselves. Educated people understand that,
>>> if they are harmed, being one of a small percentage is of no
>>> practical help. (That, by the way, is why lottery tickets sell).
>>>
>>> Intelligent people deal with risk. but respond quickly to it based
>>> upon what they have learned. They understand that the percentages
>>> that matter, if they experience the same side effects as my husband
>>> (or only a few of them) are these:
>>>
>>> 100% - the time spent in excruciating pain
>>> 1% - the percent of the population with worse short-term memory
>>> 0% - the income that can be earned with this degree of disability
>>> 25% - the reduction in lifetime years of earning, knowing these
>>> years would have been at peak income
>>> 30% - (or more) the cost of care not covered by insurance, if you
>>> are lucky enough to retain insurance
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> and
>>> 0% - the patience they have for sophomoric hyperbolic ad hominem
>>> attacks that attempt to ascribe evil intent to educational factual
>>> posts in the most paranoid of tones
>>>
>>>
>>> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns95C6E6AC4A2B9some1outthere@38.144.126.103...
>>>> "Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in
>>>> news:7%4yd.221529$5K2.89851@attbi_s03:
>>>>
>>>>> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns95C48C0ED7D0Dsome1outthere@38.144.126.106...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I know it won't change the minds of those on the other side of
>>>>>> the fence (although I find myself somewhere in the middle) and
>>>>>> I'm sure their responses will sound persuasive, but facts are
>>>>>> facts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> L.
>>>>> Veru well said! Facts are indeed facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Deaths from Lipitor-induced rhabdomyolysis are unnecessary, but
>>>>> they occurr. Fact.
>>>>>
>>>>> Deaths from other statins are unnecessary, but they occur. Fact.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your numbers verify these Facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> That the percentage of people killed unnecessarily by prescription
>>>>> drug side-effects is perceived to be low does not affect the
>>>>> status of the patient who died unnecessarily, nor is it of any
>>>>> comfort to their family.
>>>>>
>>>>> Death is a fact. Unnecessary death is a fact. Facts are facts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christ, we've gone over this before!! You are an impossible,
>>>> exasperating person!
>
> ad hominem attack
>
>>>>(Sorry andrew, for taking the lord's name in
>>>> vain...)
>>>>
>>>> I'll say it again: YES, it is a terrible tragedy to those who
>>>> suffer from serious side effects of medications. Deaths have
>>>> occured (fact), serious side effects have occurred (fact). No one
>>>> disputes this. BUT IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THOSE
>>>> WHO TAKE STATINS
>
> sophomoric, and completely off topic. Binary for the patient -
> disability and chronic pain occurs or does not occur
>
>>>> (fact). It helps no one for you and zee to scare the shit out of
>>>> people about statins with your
>>>> endless links and frightening subjects lines
>
> paranoid hyperbole
>
> when (IN FACT) only an
>>>> extremely small percentage of those who take statins *ever*
>>>> experience side
>>>> effects. You two make it seem as if everyone who takes a statin
>>>> either will
>>>> have a side effect from the statin or has had a side effect and/or
>>>> are unaware that they have had it! This is just an absurd view
>>>> *not* based on fact.
>
> perjorative hyperbole, and sophomoric conclusion simply to create
> another ad hominem attack
>
> again off-topic, the topic was my husband's experience and a warning
> to those who might seek to avoid unnecessary disability
>
>>>>
>>>> As another poster put it so well:
>>>>
>>>> "If you [zee] take the position that all favorable information
>>>> about medications published by drug companies is of no value, but
>>>> that negative information is true, then you will, of course,
>>>> conclude that the only believable "evidence" about medications is
>>>> that they are harmful. Not really worth discussing the issue
>>>> further at that point."
>>>>
>
> paranoid - and off topic, addressing a different poster.
>
> I am the one whose husband was disabled by Lipitor, who was prescribed
> Naproxene because of the gout he developed from the excessive muscle
> cell death due to Lipitor damage, and thereby was exposed to what the
> FDA stated was "increased risk of cardiovascular events" from the
> Naproxene.
>
> You went so far off-topic to forget who you were replying to with your
> sophomoric hyperbolic ad hominem attacks that attempt to ascribe evil
> intent to educational factual posts in the most paranoid of tones,
> calling for just such an observation.
>
>>>>
>>>> As I said earlier:
>>>>
>>>> Deaths reported in Statin-Associated Rhabdomyolysis
>>>> (October 1997 through December 2000) without concurrent Fibrates
>>>> and taking
>>>> more than one statin: 51
>>>>
>>>> (see: http://www.citizen.org/publications/release.cfm?ID=7051)
>>>>
>>>> From October 1997 to January 2001, nearly 300 million prescriptions
>>>> were written for statins. That works out to less than 1 chance in
>>>> 750,000 of getting rhabdomyolysis and 1 in 5,747,000, or 0.000017
>>>> percent, of dying from it. The odds of a serious bleed from aspirin
>>>> can be 1 in 50,000.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aspirin, which is readily available over the counter, even to
>>>> children. Shouldn't you be much more alarmed about aspirin than
>>>> statins???
>
> sophomoric - my husband was disabled by statins, not aspirin or
> anything else you care to list.
>
>>>>
>>>> L.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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