Re: Red Meat NO GOOD, Veggies no protection.... NOW WHAT?

From: Ron (ronis_at_home.com)
Date: 01/15/05 

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:57:24 -0500

In article <34tcr6F4di2muU1@individual.net>,
 "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote:

> Ron wrote:
> > In article <34t8onF4et82kU1@individual.net>,
> > "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ron wrote:
> >>> In article <34t1adF4d2l4mU1@individual.net>,
> >>> "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Ron wrote:
> >>>>> In article <csbete$blf$1@kermit.esat.net>,
> >>>>> "pearl" <tea@signguestbook.ie> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I posted a chart showing that a high percentage of the US
> >>>>>> population is vitamin D deficient. So why single-out a
> >>>>>> particular diet when the problem is widespread, and due to
> >>>>>> insufficient exposure to sunlight?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm curious about which percentage of the population is not
> >>>>> deficient. The US population is fairly well dispersed from
> >>>>> northern to southern climes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If the vitamin deficiency is said to be related to lack of
> >>>>> sunlight then I would expect to find convincing evidence when
> >>>>> comparing the those populations.
> >>>>
> >>>> Check this site. Very good information about the health benefits of
> >>>> sunlight and vitamin D.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.sunarc.org/
> >>>>
> >>>> "Last year [2003], in a roundtable discussion at an osteoporosis
> >>>> conference in Lausanne, Switzerland, Vieth, Holick, Heaney, and
> >>>> others agreed that an optimal 25-D blood concentration for most
> >>>> people is 75 to 80 nmol/l. Most panelists, therefore, recommended
> >>>> that people strive for 800 to 1,000 IU [20- 25 mcg] of Vitamin D
> >>>> daily to achieve it."
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041016/bob9.asp
> >>>
> >>> True enough, but that doesn't respond to my concern about the
> >>> veracity of the claims the scientists are making. What you provided
> >>> only confirms what is already believed.
> >>>
> >>> Using that much Vitamin D is great and deemed healthy. What if my
> >>> body doesn't need that much? Until I have my blood tested, I may be
> >>> deficient but then I also may be providing far more vitamin D than
> >>> my system needs creating a situation where my body is having to act
> >>> to counter than "overdose" of something that wasn't required in that
> >>> quantity. So what are the effects of excessive amounts of vitamin D
> >>> in my system?
> >>>
> >>> What if I am one of those people who does happen to live in the
> >>> North, but I only require 35 nmol/l per day.
> >>> I would be "overdosing" on
> >>> vitamin D through dietary changes or supplements. This seems to me
> >>> that there might be a consequence to my overall well-being to
> >>> continue to do this without knowing for sure what my daily
> >>> requirements for vitamin D are.
> >>>
> >>> I also consider the body to be a very large chemistry set. My need
> >>> and use of such vitamins can conceivably vary from day and due to a
> >>> number of factors. Some days I am more relaxed and other days I run
> >>> myself ragged. My metabolic processes are likely affected daily and
> >>> hourly.
> >>
> >> Of course the safest option is to take the 25(OH)D test to ensure the
> >> optimal levels. The _ideal_ blood levels of 25(OH) levels do not vary
> >> that much, as far as I know. What varies is the amount of vitamin
> >> needed to make the ideal amount (75-80 nmol/L) of 25(OH) within the
> >> body. The panelist consensus to take 20 to 25 µg mentioned above is
> >> the average optimal (and safe) level to take at _winter_ time. Most
> >> people achieve near optimal vitamin D levels by following this
> >> recommendation.
> >
> > And who takes responsibility if my health suffers as a result of
> > their/your recommendation.
>
> I understand your concern. I had those same concerns when I read about
> these recommendations which are much higher than the official
> recommendations. I encourage you to _make your own study in Medline_.
> Check the information I gave. I am also aware of my own responsibility
> when giving this advice. However, I am giving this advice after I have
> read quite a many vitamin D abstracts and studies. But ultimately you
> are of course responsible yourself. In these health groups various
> health claims are made all the time. You have to check the information
> yourself. But I have tried to ensure that this information is correct.
>
> I think that the greater concern at the moment is that we get too little
> vitamin D at winter time -- which makes us prone to prostate cancer,
> osteoporosis and infections just to name some possible ailments. Please
> notice that I am just repeating the same suggestion that the best
> researchers have made. I would also like to add that in general I am not
> in favour of mega doses of vitamins, e.g. I do not use huge amounts of
> vitamin E. I am looking for _optimal_ amounts.

This a very different argument though. When I make assessments, my risk
of prostate cancer is relatively low. There hasn't been a case of
prostate cancer in my family. The same is true of osteoporosis.
infections I only endure very periodically.

Statistically, the highest incidence of prostate cancer belongs to
African males. These are also males who get far more sun that I get in
any given day -- including mid summer. As a result of the disconnect
between what is claimed and what is demonstrated, I question the
veracity of the information.

The rate of osteoporosis is statistically low and even lower for males.
I tend to worry less about this.

Infections are more likely a concern because of my exposure to bacteria
and viruses given my professional life.

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