Re: You can now verify positively if it is due to statin adverse effects Re: memory loss after CABG

From: Zee (zwalanga_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 01/24/05 

Date: 24 Jan 2005 10:44:43 -0800

Jim Chinnis wrote:
> "Zee" <walanga@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>
> >Jim and David
>
> >It is imporant also to note it is not just memory of an event, or
> >where you put something, but as you said Jim, memory needed for a
kind
> >of complex learning, and to accomplish tasks known and performed for
> >years.
>
> I should clarify: I think that was the suggestion/speculation made in
the
> paper. On reflection, I don't think there's really any evidence of
that. In
> fact, there are a number of different possibilities.

If you read Muldoon in the book Neuropsychology of Cardiovascular
Disease ed: Waldstein, he goes into greater detail about the type of
memory loss associated with statins. Incidentally, the whole book is
about types of memory loss assoiated with cardiovascular disease, and
no one etiology is completely dismissed for any other. It should be
available at your university library, or Amazon.com.

I would also like to add Jim, that the reasons you have given for
possible memory loss in those of us who took statins, and which we
correlate to statins, is that which was given to us when we reported to
our doctors, when we begged that there was something wrong, when we
were told no cannot be statins, when we were scare mongered into
staying on them, going back on. It was just that we were getting older.
And so we are injured.

The idea that at 48 or 52 or 54 we are suffering cognitive loss from
aging is so far-fetched, and arises from our prejudice about aging
among other things. How many people in their mid-50s are running
corporations, countries, heads of university departments, climbing Mt.
Everest? The peak of their professions and careers. They are not
suffering cognitive adverse effects of aging at 52 because it is not
normal to do so. One ages yes. But not forgets where one lives, or who
the people are in the family picture taken one month ago, or how to do
something you have done every day of your life. It is not normal to
need a watch to tell you what day it is, or a GPS to find your way home
from the corner bakery just because you are 52.

And as for cardiovascular risk causing memory loss; yes, it can.
Neither I nor any but one of the people I have mentioned had any
cardiovascular disease before we were put on statins. None at least
that didn't originate in a pharmaceutical brothel.

Zee

>
> One is the possibility already suggested: that some complex
test-retest skill
> is harmed by statins. If that's true, then a longer-term study might
well show
> that the statin and control groups fail to differ given long enough
treatment.
> (Test-retest improvements tend to fade over time between the test and
retest.)
>
> Another is that the statin-treated group exhibited all of the
test-retest
> improvement, just like the controls, but that they actually suffered
very mild
> losses in the cognitive abilities measured by the "statin-sensitive"
tests.
> The effects would cancel out. That would actually be my guess. If
that's true,
> then it might well be that longer term studies would show that the
statin
> group continues to diverge from the control group.
>
> It would be interesting to know if the effect is borne by only a few
of the
> members of the treatment group, rather than more uniformly, BTW. But
I suspect
> the large study is still not large enough to conclude much about
that.
>
> >I have spoken to several people now who have had profound damage
(more
> >than memory and learning loss) while on Lipitor and Baycol. They
are
> >American and so have accessed MRI. The MRIs show lesions and damage
in
> >the front left part of the brain, with evidence of unexplained
damage
> >and possible multiple TIAs. They had no symptoms prior to taking
> >statins, most had no cardiovascular disease either when they began
> >taking them. Prevention.
>
> Well, if they were given statins it was presumably because they had
risk
> factors for cardio- and cerebrovascular events. That's why sorting
this out is
> so hard.
>
> >One was a Navy diver who had a clear MRI upon retirement in his
> >mid-40s, started Lipitor at 46. Now is on full disability, with MRI
> >showing damage to the cerebellum. His story is below. Not only has
he
> >not recovered since the story was done, he is worse.
> >
> >Many hundreds of others on the drug boards, and tens of dozens more
> >writing to those of us who use personal e-mails here. And thousands
> >filling out the questionnaires Golomb and Phillips urge us to do.
All
> >talk about the memory loss and aphasia, difficulty learning and
> >thinking.
>
> Not to minimize this in any way, but cognitive decline and dementias
are more
> common in those with risk factors for cardio/cerebrovascular disease.
One can
> even make the brutal argument that statins may prevent more cases of
cognitive
> decline and dementia than they cause, even if they do cause them.
>
> >Many of us have not recovered the capabilities needed to work in our
> >former professions, and cannot seem to learn what we need for new
ones.
>
> Again, that's not rare with aging and/or with risk factors for
> cardio/cerebrovascular disease.
>
> >And lest you fall into the trap of thinking we were simple, naive
> >people who took our doctors word as from the Mount (my physicians
are
> >hooting in paroxysms of laughter) know this: I have been contacted
> >(personally) by 4 physicians, one corporate lawyer, one financial
> >analyst, two pharmaceutical company researchers (one who once
worked
> >with Horrobin) and and one university professor of health policy.
>
> But how many people take statins?
>
> >All in their 40s. All at the top of the professions. None with heart
> >disease, all caught by this memory loss and transient global amnesia
> >side effect. One having a research grant lost over it, and one
> >shoehorned into retirement at 48.
>
> Why were they taking statins? Presumably because of risk factors.
>
> >I think they contact me because they are afraid to let it be known
to
> >their employer human resources, their own physicians and
colleagues.
>
> That may well be.
>
> I hope that the UCSD Statin Study will resolve some of these
important
> questions. Do you know when it will be reported?
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

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