Re: Statins do NOT protect against Azlheimer's

From: Sharon Hope (shope_at_anet.net)
Date: 02/14/05 

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 17:25:42 -0800

"Don Kirkman" <donkirk@covad.net> wrote in message
news:seav01p6alqq3tqq4obr20aibqscm0mpnq@4ax.com...
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Sharon Hope wrote in article
> <ouqdnV_IyKZbNpPfRVn-gg@comcast.com>:
>
>>Sorry, I understated from memory - It was from an article I read in March
>>of 2004, and the number was actually TWENTY PERCENT.
>
> Well, you actually have used the 15% more than once over the past year
> or so.
>
>>The quote:
>
>>"She said that based on her experience and that of other doctors, 20% or
>>more of patients encounter some side effects."
>
>>http://www.jsonline.com/alive/news/mar04/217976.asp
>

Yes, at http://www.jsonline.com/alive/news/mar04/217976.asp

The article dated March 27, 2004 by John Fauber, "Doubts raised over drugs
for cholesterol - Side effects have included lost memory in some patients",
states
""If you believe the clinical trial data, the problems occur at very modest
rates," said Beatrice Golomb, an assistant professor of family medicine at
the University of California, San Diego, who is conducting two studies on
statin side effects.
Those trials generally report side effects in less than 1% to 2% of
patients. And many of those complications are minor and disappear if the
drug is discontinued or the dose lowered.

But, "there are clinicians whose personal experience is substantially
different than what is reported in the trials," Golomb said.

She said that based on her experience and that of other doctors, 20% or more
of patients encounter some side effects."

> No, you have said (and Mercola says) the 15% you attribute to Golomb
> refers to cognitive disability; the 20%, equally poorly sourced (was
> Fauber quoting something Golomb wrote, was he reporting an interview,
> had he heard a lecture, was it really what she said?), says, as you
> quoted above, "encounter **some* side effects."
>

You have made unsubstantiated allegations against Fauber here, stating with
no support that his article is "poorly sourced" and allegeing he "heard a
lecture"? First, I suggest you support your argument, second, I suggest you
take it up with Farber and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal. It makes no
sense that you are complaining about this to me.

> Fauber seems to be relying on Mercola almost totally in that section
> although, as I quoted, Mercola actually wrote that Golomb said, "15
> percent of statin patients develop some **cognitive** side effects." [My
> emphasis] In that part of his article Fauber seems to be paraphrasing
> and quoting Mercola (without attribution, a journalistic no-no).
>

That would be a very neat trick, because Fauber's article is dated March 27,
2004, yet the Mercola article you are almost certain he based the quote upon
is dated FOUR MONTHS LATER, July 21, 2004.

If Fauber got the information from Mercola, maybe he has some hot tips on
next week's stock market, too! Please be certain you ask and share them
with us, when you take him to task about quoting without attribution from a
Mercola article that was not published until four months after Fauber's
article.

>>"Doubts raised over drugs for cholesterol - Side effects have included
>>lost
>>memory in some patients" by John Fauber, March 27, 2004 - Milwaukee
>>Journal
>>Sentinel JSOnline.
>
>>The context:
>
>>A local man who was overcome by Lipitor adverse effects.
>
>>Informative interview with Dr. Golomb, including:
>
> Nowhere does Fauber say his report was based on an interview, either by
> him or by a different interviewer. He simply begins quoting Golomb
> without further introduction. He almost certain owes that part of the
> article to Mercola's article.
>

He also quotes without using the word "interview" the following:

- Jeff Bryden, local man paralyzed by Lipitor
- Dr. Sidney Wolfe of the advocacy group Public Citizen
- Wendy Peltier, the associate professor of neurology at the Medical
College who diagnosed Bryden, said she and other specialists at the college
have seen between 30 and 50 patients with statin-related muscle problems in
the past few years.
- Duane Graveline, a retired doctor and astronaut, who suffered memory
problems: "the memory problem was so bad that he wrote a book about it:
"Lipitor, Thief of Memory,""
- Matthew Muldoon, an associate professor of medicine at the University of
Pittsburgh School of Medicine, who said, "In memory tests and a test
involving a complex maze, the statin users did not perform as well as those
on the placebo. The difference was subtle but significant," and "We are
obligated to do more extensive research because we are asking millions of
people to take these drugs for the rest of their lives."
- Parks, of the FDA, who said "the agency is aware of reports of cognitive
problems among statin users and is monitoring the situation" also about
Parks: "The FDA is looking into the status of Crestor and hopes to respond
within 180 days, said Mary Parks, a physician and deputy director of the
FDA's metabolic and endocrine drug products division."

NOTE to Don: Why haven't you questioned this? Why is Mary Parks affirming
that the FDA is tracking statin cognitive problems from the "metabolic and
endocrine drug products division"? Why isn't NINDS (National Institutes of
Health's National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS))
involved?

> [...]
>
>>As you will no doubt recall, this information is always followed by an
>>hysterical need by some to somehow minimize that 20% number because of an
>>overwhelming need for denial.
>
> ISTM it's important to realize that the 20% and the 15% are not about
> the same problem, even if the numbers were acceptable at face value.
>

You have the quotes in context in this email (previously you had the quotes
in context at their respective URLs) - you can now make the determination
from the available information if they were the same problem or slightly
different problems. Of course, things change quickly, and you are
attempting to make precise decisions about quotes in popular media that were
taken at different points in time, and you are making absolutely no mention
that the information available at the time to make the determination may be
different at different times. But that is your choice.

Also, you are setting another acceptance criteria - "even if the numbers
were acceptable at face value" - since you set the bar, you are the only
one who can determine if someone has cleared your bar - that is totally
within your control. It is, also, within the control of each of us readers
to make that determination for ourselves, so you needn't feel compelled to
share your threshold for accepting at face value - we each have our own.
(and we would also be judging your criteria - at face value or not, as we
wish).

>>Considering that Dr. Golomb is the premier research authority on statins
>>in
>>the world, and also is independent of pharm co funding and has absolutely
>>no
>>reason to 'spin' anything, I take her at her word. Given that 100% of the
>>statin takers in my family have been drastically disabled for a number of
>>years due to Lipitor, the number does not surprise me in the least, nor
>>does
>>it give me any reason to doubt it.
>
> Some source to support your acclaim for her as "premier research
> authority on statins in the world"? I find that a little unlikely for
> an Assistant Professor of Medicine and a Research Associate in
> Psychology, both beginning in 1998.
>

You can find things to be likely or unlikely, again that is your personal
set of acceptance criteria.

The NIH values Dr. Golomb's research, and has awarded her the only
multi-year study of non-cardiac endpoints of statins that I am aware of.
The popular press unerringly seeks her out for any statin adverse effects
information. In case you were unfamiliar with it, RAND, where she also does
research, is a think-tank that has impeccable credentials for world-class
research.

Her CV is available for anyone to review at:
http://medicine.ucsd.edu/faculty/golomb/

Note her current positions include:
a.. Assistant Professor of Medicine, U.C. San Diego April 1998-
Division of General Internal Medicine

a.. Staff Physician, San Diego VA Medical Center Aug 1, 1996 -
Division of General Internal Medicine

a.. Research Associate Professor, Dept. of Psychology, USC: Oct 1998-
Social Science Research Institute
University of Southern California

a.. Health Consultant, RAND: Aug 1996 -

Get that? She is holding all these jobs simultaneously. I don't know about
you, but it makes me think about myself, "What have YOU done lately?"

>>Sorry, I should have checked before posting - 20% is the number that
>>appears in the article.
>
> But that is about a different kind and level of effects than the 15% you
> have consistently used.

There are many references to statin adverse effects now, far more than the 2
that existed in print when my husband's disabling constellation of
conditions were first determined to from Lipitor, and that all statins had
such advese effects.

Yes, Mercola does mention at
http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/21/statin_drugs.htm in his article "The
Dangers of Statin Drugs: What You Haven't Been Told About
Cholesterol-Lowering Medication, Part I, By Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig,
PhD" - This, by the way, can be reached from the TOC of his July 21, 2004
Issue #552 http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/21/index.htm
The article mentions the different statin drugs, how cholesterol is used in
the body, then:

MUSCLE PAIN AND WEAKNESS (from statin drugs).

excerpt: "The most common side effect is muscle pain and weakness, a
condition called rhabdomyolysis, most likely due to the depletion of Co-Q10,
a nutrient that supports muscle function. Dr. Beatrice Golomb of San Diego,
California is currently conducting a series of studies on statin side
effects. The industry insists that only 2-3 percent of patients get muscle
aches and cramps but in one study, Golomb found that 98 percent of patients
taking Lipitor and one-third of the patients taking Mevachor (a lower-dose
statin) suffered from muscle problems.3"

Mercola at http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/24/statin_drugs.htm in his
article "The Dangers of Statin Drugs: What You Haven't Been Told About
Cholesterol-Lowering Medication, Part II, By Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig,
PhD" it mentions:

NEUROPATHY (from statin drugs)

excerpt: "According to the research of Dr. Golomb, nerve problems are a
common side effect from statin use; patients who use statins for two or more
years are at a four to 14-fold increased risk of developing idiopathic
polyneuropathy compared to controls.11 She reports that in many cases,
patients told her they had complained to their doctors about neurological
problems, only to be assured that their symptoms could not be related to
cholesterol-lowering medications.
The damage is often irreversible. People who take large doses for a long
time may be left with permanent nerve damage, even after they stop taking
the drug."

Note it then mentions the too common problem of elderly hitting the gas
rather than the brake and causing damage or mayhem, and relates it to
peripheral neuropathy which makes it difficult for the person with
neuropathy to detect the feeling of the pedal beneath his or her foot.

HEART FAILURE (from statin drugs)

excerpt: "Cardiologist Peter Langsjoen studied 20 patients with completely
normal heart function. After six months on a low dose of 20 mg of Lipitor a
day, two-thirds of the patients had abnormalities in the heart's filling
phase, when the muscle fills with blood. According to Langsjoen, this
malfunction is due to Co-Q10 depletion.
Without Co-Q10, the cell's mitochondria are inhibited from producing energy,
leading to muscle pain and weakness. The heart is especially susceptible
because it uses so much energy.14

Co-Q10 depletion becomes more and more of a problem as the pharmaceutical
industry encourages doctors to lower cholesterol levels in their patients by
greater and greater amounts. Fifteen animal studies in six different animal
species have documented statin-induced Co-Q10 depletion leading to decreased
ATP production, increased injury from heart failure, skeletal muscle injury
and increased mortality. Of the nine controlled trials on statin-induced
Co-Q10 depletion in humans, eight showed significant Co-Q10 depletion
leading to decline in left ventricular function and biochemical
imbalances.15

Yet virtually all patients with heart failure are put on statin drugs, even
if their cholesterol is already low. Of interest is a recent study
indicating that patients with chronic heart failure benefit from having high
levels of cholesterol rather than low. Researchers in Hull, UK followed 114
heart failure patients for at least 12 months.16 Survival was 78 percent at
12 months and 56 percent at 36 months.

They found that for every point of decrease in serum cholesterol, there was
a 36 percent increase in the risk of death within three years. "

DIZZINESS (from statin drugs) includes the excerpted quote,

"According to Dr. Golumb, who notes that dizziness is a common adverse
effect, the elderly may be particularly sensitive to drops in blood
pressure.18"

COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT (from statin drugs) includes the excerpted quote,

"Dr. Golomb has found that 15 percent of statin patients develop some
cognitive side effects.22 "

CANCER (from statin drugs) includes the excerpted quote,

"In every study with rodents to date, statins have caused cancer.25 Why have
we not seen such a dramatic correlation in human studies? Because cancer
takes a long time to develop and most of the statin trials do not go on
longer than two or three years. Still, in one trial, the CARE trial, breast
cancer rates of those taking a statin went up 1500 percent.26 "

PANCREATIC ROT (from statin drugs) includes the excerpted quote,

"The medical literature contains several reports of pancreatitis in patients
taking statins. "

DEPRESSION (from statin drugs) includes the excerpted quote,

"Numerous studies have linked low cholesterol with depression. One of the
most recent found that women with low cholesterol are twice as likely to
suffer from depression and anxiety. Researchers from Duke University Medical
Center carried out personality trait measurements on 121 young women aged 18
to 27.30 They found that 39 percent of the women with low cholesterol levels
scored high on personality traits that signaled proneness to depression,
compared to 19 percent of women with normal or high levels of cholesterol. "

The article for the rest of part II and part III goes on to identify how the
results of various drug trials fail to make the case for statins to be
prescribed so widely:

"Recently published studies do not provide any more justification for the
current campaign to put as many people as possible on statin drugs."

Mercola in the References, at
http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/21/statin_drugs_ref.htm , provides the
reference from #22, Dr. Golomb's 15% quote in the COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT
section, as:

"22. Email communication, Beatrice Golomb, July 10, 2003."

The Mercola article is a quote of the article entitled, "The Weston A. Price
Foundation, "The Dangers of Statin Drugs--What you Haven't Been Told About
Cholesterol-Lowering Medicines" By Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/statin.html

This, too, addresses a full suite of statin adverse effects, and in one
category of such adverse effects it says:

"Cognitive Impairment
The November 2003 issue of Smart Money19 describes the case of Mike Hope,
owner of a successful ophthalmologic supply company: "There's an awkward
silence when you ask Mike Hope his age. He doesn't change the subject or
stammer, or make a silly joke about how he stopped counting at 21. He simply
doesn't remember. Ten seconds pass. Then 20. Finally an answer comes to him.
'I'm 56,' he says. Close, but not quite. 'I will be 56 this year.' Later, if
you happen to ask him about the book he's reading, you'll hit another
roadblock. He can't recall the title, the author or the plot." Statin use
since 1998 has caused his speech and memory to fade. He was forced to close
his business and went on Social Security 10 years early. Things improved
when he discontinued Lipitor in 2002, but he is far from complete
recovery-he still cannot sustain a conversation. What Lipitor did was turn
Mike Hope into an old man when he was in the prime of life.

Cases like Mike's have shown up in the medical literature as well. An
article in Pharmacotherapy, December 2003, for example, reports two cases of
cognitive impairment associated with Lipitor and Zocor.20 Both patients
suffered progressive cognitive decline that reversed completely within a
month after discontinuation of the statins. A study conducted at the
University of Pittsburgh showed that patients treated with statins for six
months compared poorly with patients on a placebo in solving complex mazes,
psychomotor skills and memory tests.21

Dr. Golomb has found that 15 percent of statin patients develop some
cognitive side effects.22 The most harrowing involve global transient
amnesia-complete memory loss for a brief or lengthy period-described by
former astronaut Duane Graveline in his book Lipitor: Thief of Memory.23
Sufferers report baffling incidents involving complete loss of
memory-arriving at a store and not remembering why they are there, unable to
remember their name or the names of their loved ones, unable to find their
way home in the car. These episodes occur suddenly and disappear just as
suddenly. Graveline points out that we are all at risk when the general
public is taking statins-do you want to be in an airplane when your pilot
develops statin-induced amnesia?

While the pharmaceutical industry denies that statins can cause amnesia,
memory loss has shown up in several statin trials. In a trial involving 2502
subjects, amnesia occurred in 7 receiving Lipitor; amnesia also occurred in
2 of 742 subjects during comparative trials with other statins. In addition,
"abnormal thinking" was reported in 4 of the 2502 clinical trial subjects.24
The total recorded side effects was therefore 0.5 percent; a figure that
likely under-represents the true frequency since memory loss was not
specifically studied in these trials. "

As with the Mercola site, the
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/statin.html lists the footnote
#22 as "22. Email communication, Beatrice Golomb, July 10, 2003." (And Dr.
Graveline's book can now be purchased at http://www.spacedoc.net, BTW)

>
>>If you have further questions about what may have been left out of the
>>article I suggest you contact the reporter.
>
> My questions are not about what the reporter wrote but about, first,
> what he proves (rather little, IMO, given the lack of specific sourcing)
> and, second, about your analysis and interpretation of the article.

Again, if you have arguments about what Fauber "proves" address them to
Fauber.

As to what my analysis and interpretation of the article might be, it will
most certainly not be the same as yours. At the very least, our educational
backgrounds and experience with statin adverse effects differ greatly.

For you to expect that your interpretation and analysis must be the same as
mine is a bit sad. You owe it to yourself to draw your own conclusions.
Believe me when I say that I make determinations, interpretations and
analysis without concern about "but what would Don think of this?" I can
respect you for calling into question some things, and I can agree that
every article I read about statin side effects is far too superficial to
help the millions who may be suffering harm right now, and I can share your
frustration that the studies are not sufficiently illuminating about the
side-effects, but my conclusions will often vary from yours - almost
certainly.

I think that is a healthy situation, and hope you do, too!

Now, an assignment for someone: Grab all the percentages mentioned in all
the quotes and make up some sort of table: Adverse effect, reported %age,
reporter (i.e., quoted expert), date of report. That might be a useful and
illuminating exercise, but one for which I don't have the time this evening.

Then, please share it with us. If it is useful, I may add it to the Statin
Adverse Effects FAQ!

> --
> Don
> "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed
> us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their
> use. --Galileo Galilei

Relevant Pages

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    (soc.senior.issues)
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