Re: Rupture aortic aneurysm

All I am getting here is a sense that you have chosen to be simply
argumentative.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
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Don Kirkman wrote:
>
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
> article <4260E630.95EC6947@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> >Don Kirkman wrote:
>
> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
> >> article <425F141C.A72558D6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> >> >Don Kirkman wrote:
>
> >> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
> >> >> article <425E8465.DBE25E87@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> >> >> >aureus wrote:
>
> >> >> >> simply because of its anatomical position?
> >>
> >> >> >God placed sensory nerve fibers in such a way that the **referred**
> >> >> >pains feels the way it does.
>
> >> >> >We should **know** that this did not occur by "natural selection" as
> >> >> >espoused by "evolution" theorists because rupturing of an aortic
> >> >> >aneurysm is not compatible with life. Where there is no life, there can
> >> >> >be no "natural selection" which is the process by which living creatures
> >> >> >are killed off to **select** those with traits that promote survival.
>
> >> >> I could have sworn natural selection had to do with development and
> >> >> survival of species (not individuals) over geological time to
> >> >> accommodate and adjust to environmental changes.
>
> >> >On a large scale, yes. On a smaller scale, there is selection of
> >> >inheritable traits that confer a survival advantage. Eventually, these
> >> >traits collectively are used to distinguish one species from another.
>
> >> So you agree that it is about species and not individuals, as I said.
>
> >Actually, what you wrote is in agreement with what I wrote about the
> >selection of heritable traits that confer survival for the species as a
> >whole.
>
> Of course I agree, since I said that in the paragraph immediately
> preceding the one in which you said it. :-)
>
> >> >> When a population
> >> >> fails to thrive it either changes form or goes extinct.
>
> >> >According to the theory of evolution, it is not that simple.
>
> >> Name some alternatives to "change or die out."
>
> >Within the theory of evolution, it is proposed that species are
> >incapable of collectively making decisions about their fate one way or
> >another.
>
> I don't recall much talk about "decisions" in discussions of
> evolution; I certainly didn't bring the subject up.
>
> >> >> Natural selection (being *selection*) fosters the survival of those
> >> >> species suited to the environment; those unsuited are not "killed" by
> >> >> natural selection but die from the inability to thrive in that
> >> >> environment.
>
> >> >The mechanism of natural selection is described as the process by which
> >> >creatures are **selected** to survive because of unique inheritable
> >> >traits that they possess that confers a survival advantage for the
> >> >particular environment of the moment.
>
> >> Basically all you've done is substitute "selected" for "fosters"
> >> without any change in the meaning.
>
> >Actually, I redirected the focus onto the inheritable traits possessed
> >by the individual members of a species as the criteria for the forces of
> >natural selection.
>
> But only by the individual members that successfully reproduce at a
> rate high enough to guarantee survival. That matter doesn't depend on
> the use of "selection" as the only applicable terminology.
>
> >> >> I wonder how "creation theorists" account for all the
> >> >> species that have perished? Did creation kill them off to promote
> >> >> other species?
>
> >> >Without God's blessing, species (and subspecies) become extinct.
>
> >> I wonder why God created some species and failed to bless them so they
> >> could survive. Curiouser and curiouser.
>
> >All will be revealed to those who choose to spend eternity with God.
>
> That sounds like far less evidence for the process than the
> evolutionists provide. :-)
>
> BTW, in much of the Bible and in much of the Judeo-Christian tradition
> "eternity" is not thought of as an expanse of time but as a quality of
> life. The terms involved are often described in terms of new and old
> - new life, old life; new world, old world; "you must be born again."
> Since time only exists within the cosmos it boggles modern minds to
> consider spaces and times that lie outside the cosmos; the ancients
> may have had no such concepts to wonder about.
>
> >> >> If survival of the fittest applied to individuals, Dr. Chung and I
> >> >> would both be at high risk since common sense and playing nicely with
> >> >> others are great risk reducers. :-)
>
> >> >The issue here is whether natural selection can be applied to specific
> >> >traits (referred pain specific for a ruptured aorta) and whether it can
> >> >be applied to individuals.
>
> >> I know; that's what I wrote about. I would hesitate to consider
> >> referred pain a *trait*, however, since AFAWK all vertebrates have
> >> enough similarity that referred pain probably occurs in all,
>
> >Actually we do not know this.
>
> Oddly, others in this thread seem to know it quite well, as they've
> written it out for you. You've retained some of their information in
> the parts you quoted in this very message.
>
> >> seeing
> >> that the nerves involved in the process branch off the spinal cord in
> >> close proximity and since "trait" implies a *distinguishing* quality
> >> or characteristic.
>
> >Actually, trait simply is any quality or characteristc.
>
> Such as the trait of referred pain arising from close proximity of the
> nerves in the spinal column? I can accept that, but the common usage
> seems to be for a distinguishing quality.
>
> >> >> To address the issue of the aortic aneurysm, yes, it is a risk for an
> >> >> individual, but it occurs so seldom that it is not a risk to the human
> >> >> species.
>
> >> >That a specific referred pain would have arisen that has no impact on
> >> >the survival of a species is inexplicable in terms of the theory of
> >> >evolution. On the other hand, it is fully explainable as something by
> >> >God's design.
>
> >> I wrote about the aneurysm, not the pain. Aneurysms affect
> >> survivability; pain in and of itself probably never kills any
> >> organism.
>
> >And we have been writing about the referred pain that was the original
> >query of the OP.
>
> And many other things, including your foray into evolution, creation,
> and God's answering current human questions sometime in the future (if
> we're among the lucky ones he loves enough to take to be with him). I
> think they call that something like subject creep.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Rupture aortic aneurysm
    ... >>>traits collectively are used to distinguish one species from another. ... >>>According to the theory of evolution, ... >>>traits (referred pain specific for a ruptured aorta) and whether it can ... >> survivability; pain in and of itself probably never kills any ...
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  • Re: Rupture aortic aneurysm
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  • Re: Rupture aortic aneurysm
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