Re: Rupture aortic aneurysm

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
article <425F141C.A72558D6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>Don Kirkman wrote:

>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
>> article <425E8465.DBE25E87@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>> >aureus wrote:

>> >> simply because of its anatomical position?

>> >God placed sensory nerve fibers in such a way that the **referred**
>> >pains feels the way it does.

>> >We should **know** that this did not occur by "natural selection" as
>> >espoused by "evolution" theorists because rupturing of an aortic
>> >aneurysm is not compatible with life. Where there is no life, there can
>> >be no "natural selection" which is the process by which living creatures
>> >are killed off to **select** those with traits that promote survival.

>> I could have sworn natural selection had to do with development and
>> survival of species (not individuals) over geological time to
>> accommodate and adjust to environmental changes.

>On a large scale, yes. On a smaller scale, there is selection of
>inheritable traits that confer a survival advantage. Eventually, these
>traits collectively are used to distinguish one species from another.

So you agree that it is about species and not individuals, as I said.

>> When a population
>> fails to thrive it either changes form or goes extinct.

>According to the theory of evolution, it is not that simple.

Name some alternatives to "change or die out."

>> Natural selection (being *selection*) fosters the survival of those
>> species suited to the environment; those unsuited are not "killed" by
>> natural selection but die from the inability to thrive in that
>> environment.

>The mechanism of natural selection is described as the process by which
>creatures are **selected** to survive because of unique inheritable
>traits that they possess that confers a survival advantage for the
>particular environment of the moment.

Basically all you've done is substitute "selected" for "fosters"
without any change in the meaning.

>> I wonder how "creation theorists" account for all the
>> species that have perished? Did creation kill them off to promote
>> other species?

>Without God's blessing, species (and subspecies) become extinct.

I wonder why God created some species and failed to bless them so they
could survive. Curiouser and curiouser.

>> If survival of the fittest applied to individuals, Dr. Chung and I
>> would both be at high risk since common sense and playing nicely with
>> others are great risk reducers. :-)

>The issue here is whether natural selection can be applied to specific
>traits (referred pain specific for a ruptured aorta) and whether it can
>be applied to individuals.

I know; that's what I wrote about. I would hesitate to consider
referred pain a *trait*, however, since AFAWK all vertebrates have
enough similarity that referred pain probably occurs in all, seeing
that the nerves involved in the process branch off the spinal cord in
close proximity and since "trait" implies a *distinguishing* quality
or characteristic.

>> To address the issue of the aortic aneurysm, yes, it is a risk for an
>> individual, but it occurs so seldom that it is not a risk to the human
>> species.

>That a specific referred pain would have arisen that has no impact on
>the survival of a species is inexplicable in terms of the theory of
>evolution. On the other hand, it is fully explainable as something by
>God's design.

I wrote about the aneurysm, not the pain. Aneurysms affect
survivability; pain in and of itself probably never kills any
organism.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Rupture aortic aneurysm
    ... espoused by "evolution" theorists because rupturing of an aortic aneurysm is not compatible with life. ... these traits collectively are used to distinguish one species from another. ... traits (referred pain specific for a ruptured aorta) and whether it can be applied to individuals. ... survivability; pain in and of itself probably never kills any organism. ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: Catholic Cardinale truthfully calls Abortion Murder!
    ... member of the species Homo sapiens in its own right. ... might justify abortion are transferred to an adult. ... though, except by killing it, so if "getting rid" really is essential ... I have learned lots of things without pain. ...
    (uk.religion.christian)
  • Re: Rupture aortic aneurysm
    ... >>>According to the theory of evolution, ... However, in this context, it was asking for what other things that species ... >>>traits (referred pain specific for a ruptured aorta) and whether it can ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: Rupture aortic aneurysm
    ... > The tearing pain of a AAA means go to the hospital NOW! ... There was no evolution here. ... All life forms (species) have developed from other species. ... >>> Yet, quantum mechanics is not simple, so truth is not simple. ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: When Does Life Begin?
    ... Pain and Reward is a function of the CNS. ... If wounds produce a 'painful' sensation the living ... Now, forget the survivability, etc.,. Pain is a bad 'experience' for ...
    (talk.origins)
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