Re: "Statin safe in kids with high cholesterol"


Jim Chinnis wrote:
> "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:
>
> >Jim Chinnis wrote:
> >:: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:
> >::
> >::: Jim Chinnis wrote:
> >::::: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiri@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:
> >:::::
> >:::::: I can see that you are not familiar with the studies about
the
> >:::::: Portfolio diet. That is natural, nonpharmacological and
> >:::::: effective. There is also the sugar cane wax derived
supplement
> >:::::: Policosanol, which has been shown to be effective in the
> >:::::: treatment of familial hypercholesterolemia. Please do some
study
> >:::::: in Medline if you are not familiar with these results.
> >:::::
> >::::: You are comparing apples and oranges. While policosanol and
the
> >::::: "Portfolio Diet" have been [shown] to have desirable effects
on
> >::::: blood lipids or on CRP or both, neither have ever been shown
to
> >::::: improve outcomes, while statins and aspirin and hypertensive
> >::::: drugs have.
> >:::
> >::: I find your comment very strange as even doctors state commonly
> >::: that it is healthier to reduce cholesterol by diet than by
drugs.
> >::: By using a very healthy diet you get antioxidant vitamins and
> >::: phytochemicals, fiber and healthy fats in addition to the
> >::: improvement of risk markers.
> >::
> >:: There's nothing strange about it. Doctors have said a lot of
> >:: things were good for us that have turned out not to be. The level
> >:: of evidence for statins is different from that for the "Portfolio
> >:: Diet" or for policosanol.
> >
> >It should be obvious that there can not be any studies about the
long term
> >effects of the Portfolio diet as the diet has been developed only
few years
> >ago. I would like to see a study showing that it is healthier to
reduce
> >cholesterol by statins than by a healthy diet. Any references?
>
> A "healthy" diet is, by definition healthy and would improve
> health. People differ on what makes a diet healthy. The research
> isn't all that clear, either.
>
> I still think you're talking about apples and oranges, at least a
> bit.
>
> Do you mean over a lifetime, starting at birth? In an apparently
> normal individual? In a middle-aged man who's had a heart attack?
> I suspect the answers will differ.
>
> The study you want to see has been done only in the sense that
> various statin studies have used patients undergoing treatment for
> secondary prevention. They have sometimes used patient groups that
> have received diet education and assistance both for controls and
> for statin groups. I doubt that the reverse has been done, where
> both groups get a statin and the active treatment group gets a
> "healthy" diet of one sort or another. Neither has a head-to-head
> been done, as far as I know. The Portfolio diet itself emerged
> from a comparison of the diet with lovastatin--a very weak
> statin--and measured only lipids and CRP, as I recall.
>
> I looked it up: Three groups were compared over a 90 day period: a
> diet very low in saturated fat, based on milled whole-wheat
> cereals and low-fat dairy foods (n = 16; control); the same diet
> plus lovastatin, 20 mg/d (n = 14); or a diet high in plant sterols
> (1.0 g/1000 kcal), soy protein (21.4 g/1000 kcal), viscous fibers
> (9.8 g/1000 kcal), and almonds (14 g/1000 kcal) (n = 16; dietary
> portfolio). The results showed that the statin group improved (LDL
> and CRP) more than did the diet group, but the difference was not
> statistically significant. Both diet and statin groups improved
> compared to the placebo group.
>
> No meaningful endpoints. 90 days duration. Small n.
>
> I think we know more about the effects of statins than we do about
> the effects of diets, where morbidity and mortality endpoints are
> concerned.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA



90 days? What would happen in a longer study...

We do know more about the effects of statins; enough to say that in a
longer study adverse effects would increase. A longer study would show
increased effect for the Portfolio Diet too because that is how diet
and exercise work. For both damage to be done, and benefit to show--it
takes time.

Zee

.

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