Re: Statin-associated Muscle Problems

In article <TAXte.717$N22.500@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
<Hawki63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> "Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:jason-2006050812550001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > In article <Qette.515$0i4.4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Bill"
> > <xxx@xxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> "Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:jason-1906051945010001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > In article <Ztlte.1180$lv.1061@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Bill"
> >> > <xxx@xxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> news:jason-1906050816530001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > In article <2mate.6634$on5.3299@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Bill"
> >> >> > <xxx@xxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:jason-1806051906370001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> So a 1 in a million chance according to this article, your
> >> >> >> >> muscle
> >> >> >> >> pains
> >> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> >> gone, you have not told her about the red rice, and you have
> >> >> >> > discontinued the
> >> >> >> >> statin. I would not see a need for such a test if I were her
> >> >> >> >> either.
> >> >> >> >> However,
> >> >> >> >> you can pay for it yourself. Also, you must also balance the
> >> >> >> >> risk of
> >> >> >> >> statins
> >> >> >> >> with the risk of not taking them.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Hello,
> >> >> >> > Thanks for your concern.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> My concern is mostly about the way you are thinking about your
> >> >> >> problems.
> >> >> >> Not
> >> >> >> that you have an underlying problem itself.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Yes, most (but not all) of my muscle pains are
> >> >> >> > gone. I am not a math expert but I have concluded that I was
> >> >> >> > taking
> >> >> >> > what
> >> >> >> > is considered to be a very safe dose of statins. Provachol
> >> >> >> > (Pravastatin)
> >> >> >> > comes from the factory in 4 dose levels. I was taking the 20 mg
> >> >> >> > dose.
> >> >> >> > They
> >> >> >> > also make a 10mg dose, 40 mg dose and a 80 mg dose. According to
> >> >> >> > page
> >> >> >> > 42
> >> >> >> > of "What You Must Know About Statin Drugs..." by Jay S. Cohen,
> >> >> >> > M.D.,
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > actual "Manufacturer's recommended dose" is the 40 mg dose or the
> >> >> >> > 80
> >> >> >> > mg
> >> >> >> > dose. In other words, I am fairly certain that I was taking the
> >> >> >> > equivalent
> >> >> >> > of the 40 mg dose.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> How do you know that?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Therefore, it was a safe dose and should not have
> >> >> >> > caused me to have muscle pains. I have not yet given up on statin
> >> >> >> > use.
> >> >> >> > Dr.
> >> >> >> > Cohen mentioned on pages 154 and 160 of his book that some
> >> >> >> > doctors
> >> >> >> > tell
> >> >> >> > their patients to use a pill splitter to cut [10 mg] pills in
> >> >> >> > half.
> >> >> >> > Perhaps if I took a 5 mg dose of Provachol each day--that it
> >> >> >> > would not
> >> >> >> > cause me to have muscle pain. What do you think about this idea?
> >> >> >> > I
> >> >> >> > should
> >> >> >> > note that my total chol. level (169 MG/DL) during my last blood
> >> >> >> > test
> >> >> >> > was
> >> >> >> > within normal limits. Dr. Cohen writes in his book that low doses
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > statins are less likely to cause side effects than medium and
> >> >> >> > high
> >> >> >> > doses.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > You mentioned that you would NOT have arranged for me to have a
> >> >> >> > CK
> >> >> >> > test
> >> >> >> > if
> >> >> >> > I told you that I had statin-associated muscle pain (myopathy).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> That is not what I said at all. You said you had already stopped
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> statin
> >> >> >> and that your next appointment was a month away.You had said some
> >> >> >> time
> >> >> >> ago
> >> >> >> that your muscle pain was almost gone. With the statins stopped a
> >> >> >> while
> >> >> >> ago
> >> >> >> and things improving greatly it would not seem the test is needed.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Bill,
> >> >> > You made some excellent points. I am sorry if I misunderstood you.
> >> >> > That
> >> >> > was not my intention. I only started conducting research on statins
> >> >> > about
> >> >> > three weeks ago. However, based upon what I learned it's obvious
> >> >> > that
> >> >> > statins can cause problems to various organs and tissues such as the
> >> >> > kidney, liver and muscle tissues. Before I even consider taking low
> >> >> > dose
> >> >> > statins I would like to know certain things such as a blood test for
> >> >> > CK,
> >> >> > C-Reactive Protein and Liver Enzymes. Those tests would help me
> >> >> > determine
> >> >> > if any long term damage was done. If not, I may resume statins at a
> >> >> > low
> >> >> > dose level. My doctor does not feel some of these tests are
> >> >> > necessary--she
> >> >> > just wants me to start taking statins again.
> >> >> > Jason
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm not sure, but I have a good guess that those tests would not be
> >> >> valid
> >> >> any
> >> >> longer since you stopped taking the statins a while ago? They are also
> >> >> unlikely to show what would happen if you started taking statins again
> >> >> since
> >> >> your symptoms have greatly subsided. And, again, how do you know your
> >> > dose of
> >> >> red yeast rice was acceptable? Also - as I pointed out before - if you
> >> >> really
> >> >> want these tests, you can pay for them.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bill
> >> >
> >> > Bill,
> >> > You may be 100 percent right. I really don't know what to do at this
> >> > point
> >> > in time. The tests that I mentioned might not help. On one day--I want
> >> > to
> >> > try taking statins again but the following day--I don't because they
> >> > might
> >> > do damage to my kidneys. What would you do if you were in my shoes?
> >> > Jason
> >> >
> >>
> >> 1. I never would have gotten there.
> >>
> >> 2. You have gotten more advice and information than 999 out of 1000
> >> potential
> >> statin takers do. So it is time for you to consider all of that.
> >>
> >> 3, You should listen to your Dr. but challenge her if something does not
> >> make
> >> sense.
> >>
> >> 4. In the end, everything is a roll of the dice and it is up to you on
> > how you
> >> want to place your bets.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >
> > Bill,
> > You are right. Robert told me the same thing. I don't like to gamble since
> > it involves risk taking. It seems that in this situation that my life and
> > health is on the line.
>
> sorry Jason....there will always be risk taking...no matter how many books
> or articles you read..
>
> not telling you to do one or the other..
>
> just accept that their is risk
>
> doing nothing...is also a risk...
>

Hawk,
Agreed. I have a doctor's appointment next week and we will discuss these
issues. Thanks for your help and support. I saw some of your other posts
related to other issues and it's obvious that you have lots of medical
knowledge and give excellent advice. Keep up the good work.
Jason

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