Re: Statin-associated Muscle Problems

In article <Xns967DB95844042some1outthere@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, listener
<listener@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> jason@xxxxxxxxxx (Jason) wrote in
> news:jason-2206051325190001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
>
> > In article <Xns967D9138EC442some1outthere@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, listener
> > <listener@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> jason@xxxxxxxxxx (Jason) wrote in
> >> news:jason-2206051053220001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
> >>
> >> > In article <tsCdnfo4w5ChBSXfRVn-uw@xxxxxxx>, "Robert"
> >> > <Robertitsme@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "zee" <outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> news:1119385526.415379.55110@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Jason wrote:
> >> >> > > In article <TAXte.717$N22.500@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> >> >> > > <Hawki63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > "Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > news:jason-2006050812550001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > > > ..
> >> >> > > > > In article <Qette.515$0i4.4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> >> >> > > > > "Bill" <xxx@xxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > >> "Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > >> news:jason-1906051945010001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > > > >> et. ..
> >> >> > > > >> > In article
> >> >> > > > >> > <Ztlte.1180$lv.1061@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> >> >> "Bill"
> >> >> > > > >> > <xxx@xxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> > > > >> >
> >> >> > > > >> >> "Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > >> >> news:jason-1906050816530001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > > > >> >> x.n et...
> >> >> > > > >> >> > In article
> >> >> > > > >> >> > <2mate.6634$on5.3299@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> >> >> "Bill"
> >> >> > > > >> >> > <xxx@xxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> "Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> > > > >> >> >>
> >> >> news:jason-1806051906370001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> So a 1 in a million chance according to this
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> article, your muscle
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> pains
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> are
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> gone, you have not told her about the red rice,
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> and you
> >> >> have
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > discontinued the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> statin. I would not see a need for such a test
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> if I were
> >> >> her
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> either.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> However,
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> you can pay for it yourself. Also, you must also
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> balance
> >> >> the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> risk of
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> statins
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >> with the risk of not taking them.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Hello,
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Thanks for your concern.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >>
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> My concern is mostly about the way you are thinking
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> about
> >> >> your
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> problems.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> Not
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> that you have an underlying problem itself.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >>
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Yes, most (but not all) of my muscle pains are
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > gone. I am not a math expert but I have concluded
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > that I
> >> >> was
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > taking
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > what
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > is considered to be a very safe dose of statins.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Provachol (Pravastatin)
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > comes from the factory in 4 dose levels. I was
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > taking the
> >> >> 20 mg
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > dose.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > They
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > also make a 10mg dose, 40 mg dose and a 80 mg
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > dose.
> >> >> According to
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > page
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > 42
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > of "What You Must Know About Statin Drugs..." by
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Jay S.
> >> >> Cohen,
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > M.D.,
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > actual "Manufacturer's recommended dose" is the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > 40 mg dose
> >> >> or the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > 80
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > mg
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > dose. In other words, I am fairly certain that I
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > was taking
> >> >> the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > equivalent
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > of the 40 mg dose.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >>
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> How do you know that?
> >> >> > > > >> >> >>
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >Therefore, it was a safe dose and should not have
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > caused me to have muscle pains. I have not yet
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > given up on
> >> >> statin
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > use.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Dr.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Cohen mentioned on pages 154 and 160 of his book
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > that some doctors
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > tell
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > their patients to use a pill splitter to cut [10
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > mg] pills
> >> >> in
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > half.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Perhaps if I took a 5 mg dose of Provachol each
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > day--that
> >> >> it
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > would not
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > cause me to have muscle pain. What do you think
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > about this
> >> >> idea?
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > I
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > should
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > note that my total chol. level (169 MG/DL) during
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > my last
> >> >> blood
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > test
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > was
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > within normal limits. Dr. Cohen writes in his
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > book that low
> >> >> doses
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > of
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > statins are less likely to cause side effects
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > than medium
> >> >> and
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > high
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > doses.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > You mentioned that you would NOT have arranged
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > for me to
> >> >> have a
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > CK
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > test
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > if
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > I told you that I had statin-associated muscle
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > pain
> >> >> (myopathy).
> >> >> > > > >> >> >>
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> That is not what I said at all. You said you had
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> already
> >> >> stopped
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> statin
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> and that your next appointment was a month away.You
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> had said
> >> >> some
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> time
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> ago
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> that your muscle pain was almost gone. With the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> statins
> >> >> stopped a
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> while
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> ago
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> and things improving greatly it would not seem the
> >> >> > > > >> >> >> test is
> >> >> needed.
> >> >> > > > >> >> >
> >> >> > > > >> >> > Bill,
> >> >> > > > >> >> > You made some excellent points. I am sorry if I
> >> >> > > > >> >> > misunderstood
> >> >> you.
> >> >> > > > >> >> > That
> >> >> > > > >> >> > was not my intention. I only started conducting
> >> >> > > > >> >> > research on
> >> >> statins
> >> >> > > > >> >> > about
> >> >> > > > >> >> > three weeks ago. However, based upon what I learned
> >> >> > > > >> >> > it's
> >> >> obvious
> >> >> > > > >> >> > that
> >> >> > > > >> >> > statins can cause problems to various organs and
> >> >> > > > >> >> > tissues such
> >> >> as the
> >> >> > > > >> >> > kidney, liver and muscle tissues. Before I even
> >> >> > > > >> >> > consider
> >> >> taking low
> >> >> > > > >> >> > dose
> >> >> > > > >> >> > statins I would like to know certain things such as
> >> >> > > > >> >> > a blood
> >> >> test for
> >> >> > > > >> >> > CK,
> >> >> > > > >> >> > C-Reactive Protein and Liver Enzymes. Those tests
> >> >> > > > >> >> > would help
> >> >> me
> >> >> > > > >> >> > determine
> >> >> > > > >> >> > if any long term damage was done. If not, I may
> >> >> > > > >> >> > resume statins
> >> >> at a
> >> >> > > > >> >> > low
> >> >> > > > >> >> > dose level. My doctor does not feel some of these
> >> >> > > > >> >> > tests are necessary--she
> >> >> > > > >> >> > just wants me to start taking statins again.
> >> >> > > > >> >> > Jason
> >> >> > > > >> >>
> >> >> > > > >> >> I'm not sure, but I have a good guess that those tests
> >> >> > > > >> >> would not
> >> >> be
> >> >> > > > >> >> valid
> >> >> > > > >> >> any
> >> >> > > > >> >> longer since you stopped taking the statins a while
> >> >> > > > >> >> ago? They
> >> >> are also
> >> >> > > > >> >> unlikely to show what would happen if you started
> >> >> > > > >> >> taking statins
> >> >> again
> >> >> > > > >> >> since
> >> >> > > > >> >> your symptoms have greatly subsided. And, again, how
> >> >> > > > >> >> do you
> >> >> know your
> >> >> > > > >> > dose of
> >> >> > > > >> >> red yeast rice was acceptable? Also - as I pointed out
> >> >> > > > >> >> before -
> >> >> if you
> >> >> > > > >> >> really
> >> >> > > > >> >> want these tests, you can pay for them.
> >> >> > > > >> >>
> >> >> > > > >> >> Bill
> >> >> > > > >> >
> >> >> > > > >> > Bill,
> >> >> > > > >> > You may be 100 percent right. I really don't know what
> >> >> > > > >> > to do at
> >> >> this
> >> >> > > > >> > point
> >> >> > > > >> > in time. The tests that I mentioned might not help. On
> >> >> > > > >> > one
> >> >> day--I want
> >> >> > > > >> > to
> >> >> > > > >> > try taking statins again but the following day--I don't
> >> >> > > > >> > because
> >> >> they
> >> >> > > > >> > might
> >> >> > > > >> > do damage to my kidneys. What would you do if you were
> >> >> > > > >> > in my
> >> >> shoes?
> >> >> > > > >> > Jason
> >> >> > > > >> >
> >> >> > > > >>
> >> >> > > > >> 1. I never would have gotten there.
> >> >> > > > >>
> >> >> > > > >> 2. You have gotten more advice and information than 999
> >> >> > > > >> out of 1000 potential
> >> >> > > > >> statin takers do. So it is time for you to consider all
> >> >> > > > >> of that.
> >> >> > > > >>
> >> >> > > > >> 3, You should listen to your Dr. but challenge her if
> >> >> > > > >> something
> >> >> does not
> >> >> > > > >> make
> >> >> > > > >> sense.
> >> >> > > > >>
> >> >> > > > >> 4. In the end, everything is a roll of the dice and it is
> >> >> > > > >> up to you
> >> >> on
> >> >> > > > > how you
> >> >> > > > >> want to place your bets.
> >> >> > > > >>
> >> >> > > > >> Bill
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > > Bill,
> >> >> > > > > You are right. Robert told me the same thing. I don't like
> >> >> > > > > to gamble
> >> >> since
> >> >> > > > > it involves risk taking. It seems that in this situation
> >> >> > > > > that my
> >> >> life and
> >> >> > > > > health is on the line.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > sorry Jason....there will always be risk taking...no matter
> >> >> > > > how many
> >> >> books
> >> >> > > > or articles you read..
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > not telling you to do one or the other..
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > just accept that their is risk
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > doing nothing...is also a risk...
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Hawk,
> >> >> > > Agreed. I have a doctor's appointment next week and we will
> >> >> > > discuss
> >> >> these
> >> >> > > issues. Thanks for your help and support. I saw some of your
> >> >> > > other posts related to other issues and it's obvious that you
> >> >> > > have lots of medical knowledge and give excellent advice. Keep
> >> >> > > up the good work. Jason
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Whoever you are, you're very sweet.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Zee
> >> >>
> >> >> Let's guess here who he might be. Very sweet and with a matural
> >> >> arrest and religious reference.
> >> >> I guess Michael Jackson.
> >> >> Is that you Michael?
> >> >> Zee can bring over the J juice.
> >> >
> >> > Robert,
> >> > Are you having problems related to statin related memory problems?
> >> > I hope not. I noticed that you made use of a word that I have never
> >> > seen before. I typed it into my spell checker and it stated "no
> >> > such word". If you are taking statins, you might want to see your
> >> > doctor ASAP. I also have had problems spelling words as a result of
> >> > statin related memory problems.
> >> > Jason
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> How have your "statin related memory problems" been diagnosed and
> >> documented?
> >>
> >>
> >> L.
> >
> > Hello,
> > I diagosed memory problems myself since I noticed memory problems
> > shortly after I started taking statin pills. If you want evidence that
> > statins in some cases have caused memory problems, read pages 86-90 of
> > this book: "WHAT YOU MUST KNOW ABOUT STATIN DRUGS AND THEIR NATURAL
> > ALTERNATIVES" by Jay S. Cohen, MD
> > I should note that I was just joking in my post since Robert once told
> > me to make sure I spelled words right in my posts.
> > Jason
> >
>
> Jason,
>
> I was asking specifically about *YOU* and you've answered my question,
> thank you.
>
> There is a difference between self-diagnosis and being clinically
> diagnosed and documented with a disorder.
>
> L.

L,
I realize that. Of course, there are some exceptions. I don't think that
you or I would have any problems diagnosing a heart attack or broken
leg--esp. if we could see the end of one of the bones. Those people that
work on ambulance crews have to diagnose injuries on a regular basis. In
my case, I know when I started having problems remembering the names of my
friends and misspelling common words that I always spelled correctly
before. Those problems started shortly after I started taking statin
pills. It would be impossible for a doctor at this point in time to link
it to statins since I was not given a memory test before I started taking
statins. I don't know of any blood test or other test such as a CAT scan
of my brain that would make it possible for a doctor to determine if I did
or did not have statin-associated memory problems.
Jason

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