Re: CK blood test


"Sharon Hope" <shope@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:6aOdnab-7OG9mFffRVn-qw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> What I claimed is found in my posts. What you decide to twist that into is
> your business.
>
> My meaning is clear.
>

Essentially what you are saying is that you can claim anything you like in
your posts and if someone asks you to provide evidence to support your claim
that person is twisting it. That is really really what you are saying.

OK. Everyone notice that.

Did you not claim:

" If the the CK test comes back positive this was most likely due to statin
damage in a statin taker"

I asked you to justify that claim. In what way did that twist what you said? I
pointed out that an alternative could be false postives. In precisely what way
did I twist what you said.

You are simply making up another lie are you not? I in no way twisted anything
you said. I simply asked you to justify what you said and you have not.

You also said that a person experienceing pain from statins should:

"expect the muscle pain and damage to continue for months to years before
subsiding."

Did you not say that? In what way did I twist it? I asked you for
justification. You did not provide it. I provided two examples from sources
you trust that suggest the opposite.

What precisely in any of the above is untrue?

Bill




> "Bill" <xxx@xxxxx> wrote in message
> news:bgmye.422$ER6.329@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> "Sharon Hope" <shope@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:Iuednb5LHd7keFTfRVn-vQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>> "Bill" <xxx@xxxxx> wrote in message
>>> news:Rckye.438$0w2.83@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> "Sharon Hope" <shope@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>> news:wfWdnZYbd_P96VTfRVn-tQ@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bill" <xxx@xxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>> news:MZ7ye.153$LK5.85@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Sharon Hope" <shope@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:uuudndUjpebdUFXfRVn-2g@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Bill" <xxx@xxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:3N2ye.194$Xp6.75@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Sharon Hope" <shope@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:xJWdnd-d1M3hNFXfRVn-2g@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Bill" <xxx@xxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:EN%xe.152$Xp6.1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Sharon Hope" <shope@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:W9idnfLmY7EBHlXfRVn-pg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Robert" <Robertitsme@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:FOednZk6qqRJz1XfRVn-qQ@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://jnnp.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/68/6/750
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/-415956920.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>>> The relevance is that you should ask an expert.
>>> <snip>
>>>>> Horses, not zebras. Obviously if the patient is taking a known myotoxic
>>>>> and neurotoxic substance, that would be the first place to look.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What you said was the most likely cause was statins. You have yet to
>>>> support that. For your statement to be true the number of false positives
>>>> must be low. And you have yet to show that it is.
>>>
>>> If a patient is being administered a known myotoxic drug and exhibits
>>> muscle damage, suspect the myotoxic drug first.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Which has absoultely nothing to do with the question. You are again
>> changing the subject. Again if the the CK test comes back positive you
>> claimed this was most likely due to statin damage in a statin taker. I
>> challenged you to provide a source for this and you have not. You just keep
>> reasserting your original claim over and over - but give not explaination
>> as to why it is true. I gave you an example of something that could be more
>> frequent - false positives. Why could this not be more frequent? Answer
>> this directly without changing the question.
>>
>>
>>> Statins are proven to be myotoxic, per citations below.
>>>
>>
>> You are again bringing up irrelavent issues. No one claimed they were not.
>> So why does your showing that they are prove anything? Why do you keep
>> going off and proving something I have already agreed to?
>>
>>> If a patient is being administered a drug known to cause cognitive damage
>>> and exhibits cognitive damage, suspect the cognitively damaging drug
>>> first.
>>>
>>> Statins are proven to be cognitively damaging, per citations below.
>>>
>>> If a patient is being administered a known neurotoxic drug and exhibits
>>> neurological damage, suspect the neurotoxic drug first.
>>>
>>> Statins are proven to be neurotoxic, per citations below.
>>>
>>> Excerpts from the Statin Adverse Effects FAQ, regarding the three most
>>> common adverse effects from Lipitor (aka Atorvastatin), Lescol (aka
>>> fluvastatin), Mevacor (aka lovastatin), Pravachol (aka pravastatin), Zocor
>>> (aka simvastatin), Crestor (aka rosuvastatin), or Baycol (aka
>>> cerivastatin).
>>>
>>> Note that the full FAQ contains citations for studies that establish other
>>> adverse effects in addition to muscle damage, cognitive damage and nerve
>>> damage.
>>> Full FAQ:
>>> http://www.freewebs.com/stopped_our_statins/StatinFAQ_031305wTOCv4.pdf
>>>
>> -snip-
>>
>> You have left out the issue of your claim that a person with muscle pain
>> should:
>>
>> "expect the muscle pain and damage to continue for months to years before
>> subsiding."
>>
>> but we have this:
>>
>> "Many of the myopathic patients had felt markedly improved when they
>> stopped their statin therapy for two weeks before entry into the trial. "
>>
>> from Dr. Phillips site
>>
>> and this from Dr. Golomb's site
>>
>> "Although symptoms usually resolve on stopping the drug, for a
>> proportion of those who have contacted us, muscle symptoms - pain or
>> weakness - or peripheral neuropathy may persist when the drugs are
>> discontinued."
>>
>>
>> which does not imply that for most people the symptoms linger.
>>
>> When I asked you to justify your claim you could only point to your
>> recollection of a talk you attended. When I asked you to provide some
>> details from that talk -e.g. how many people had little or no symptoms at
>> two months - you declined. So you have essentially provided no evidence to
>> support your claim and I have provided some that contradicts it.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


.

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