Re: statins don't reduce dementia risk

In article <1121037048.675241.211830@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "zee"
<outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Jason wrote:
> > In article <1121024193.003999.320950@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "zee"
> > <outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Jason wrote:
> > > > In article <3s01d1p2693490bqf9j2o9q922vt2lajbf@xxxxxxx>, Jim Chinnis
> > > > <jchinnis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "zee" <outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Jim Chinnis wrote:
> > > > > >> "zee" <outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >Odd. I don't recall you making a similar comment about myriad
> > > > > >> >obsevational and retrospective studies we've been reading ad
> > nauseum in
> > > > > >> >the past year or so, as the date to atorvastatin coming off patent
> > > > > >> >approaches....and the markeing dept. high fives each other
in glee at
> > > > > >> >yet another goal met.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Then you haven't read carefully.
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Well I give. I should have said I don't recall you making a similar
> > > > > >comment about myriad observational and retrospective studies
we've been
> > > > > >reading ad nauseum in the past year or so as the date to atorvastatin
> > > > > >coming off patent approaches....and the marketing dept. high
fives each
> > > > > >other in glee at yet another goal met...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Until you were 'convinced'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Zee
> > > > >
> > > > > I really don't have a bias, Zee. I'm a patient. I take a statin
> > > > > but would stop in a second if I thought the evidence justified
> > > > > doing so. I want to know the risks and benefits of all treatments
> > > > > related to atherosclerosis.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I accepted the retrospective studies about the wonders of
> > > > > statins, I was wrong to do so. Normally I would not do that. The
> > > > > drug companies and masters degree students put out papers and
> > > > > press releases daily about observational studies that are pure
> > > > > nonsense. I almost always say that it isn't possible to interpret
> > > > > a retrospective study or even a prospective study that isn't
> > > > > randomized.
> > > > >
> > > > > What are needed are large, long-term, randomized trials.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
> > > >
> > > > Jim,
> > > > When I first started taking statins, my doctors stated or at least
implied
> > > > that statins would help solve my problems related to atherosclerosis. Of
> > > > course, it's possible that I misunderstood her. I now know some
facts that
> > > > I did not know at that point in time. If you want to read the article in
> > > > the medical journal, please let me know and I'll send you the reference
> > > > info. that you will need.
> > > >
> > > > Statins and Plaque (2003)
> > > >
> > > > A study published in the American Journal of Cardiology casts serious
> > > > doubts on the commonly held belief that lowering your
LDL-cholesterol, the
> > > > so-called bad cholesterol, is the most effective way to reduced arterial
> > > > plaque. Researchers at Beth Israel Medical Center in New York City
> > > > examined the coronary plaque buildup in 182 subjects who took
statin drugs
> > > > to lower cholesterol levels. One group of subjects used the drug
> > > > aggressively (more than 80 mg per day) while the balance of the subjects
> > > > took less than 80 mg per day. Using electron beam tomography, the
> > > > researchers measured plaque in all of the subjects before and after a
> > > > study period of more than one year. The subjects were generally
successful
> > > > in lowering their cholesterol, but in the end there was no statistical
> > > > difference in the two groups in the progression of arterial calcified
> > > > plaque. On average, subjects in both groups showed a 9.2 percent
increase
> > > > in plaque buildup.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> > > > We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> > > > We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > It's always a good idea when you are reading something like the above,
> > > which is someone's opinion, to try to track down the original source of
> > > the information. Otherwise you are only getting someone else's opinion.
> > > It's fine to seek other's opinions, but then you have to consider who
> > > they are, what their bias is, etc. Always best to go to the source.
> > >
> > > In this case why don't you get the study, abstract and/or link and
> > > bring it for Jim to look at. I think you'll get a better reading than
> > > from Mercola (phooey).
> > >
> > > Zee
> >
> > Zee,
> > That's great advice. I don't subscribe to the journal. However, during my
> > next visit to the city library, I'll take along the reference information
> > and see if they have old issues of the journal. I know for sure they have
> > old issues of JAMA because I actually took a great look at some of them.
> > Does Jim or yourself need the reference info. so that you can read the
> > article in the journal? If so, just let me know and I will post it. I
> > don't know what you meant when you mentioned Mercola--I obtained it from
> > an article written by Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD.
> > Jason
> > Jason
> >
> > --
> > NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> > We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> > We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>
>
>
> I won't be translating it for you Jason. But Jim might if you ask
> nicely. Send good coffee. Bloody steaks. Like that...
>
> The article is on Mercola's site. Is he the author or Enig and Fallon,
> or all three?
>
> Either way, the article is an opinion. If it is Enig and Fallon's
> opinion then who are they? Enig has good scientific credentials, but
> that in and of itself doesn't make her analysis right. Fallon is in
> communications. (I'm trying to be polite.)
>
> Zee

Zee,
It's my guess that anyone that writes a summary (or whatever it is called)
of a medical study makes use of bias. For example, if the person that
writes the summary works for a company that makes statins--don't you think
that summary would have biased information? If Enig does have good
scientific credentials, don't you think that is likely that the summary
contains accurate information?
I doubt if Jim will even bother reading the original journal article.
I hope that you have a wonderful day.
Jason

--
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