Re: statins don't reduce dementia risk


"Jason" <jason@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:jason-1107050953130001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> In article <1121037048.675241.211830@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "zee"
> <outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Jason wrote:
>> > In article <1121024193.003999.320950@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "zee"
>> > <outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Jason wrote:
>> > > > In article <3s01d1p2693490bqf9j2o9q922vt2lajbf@xxxxxxx>, Jim Chinnis
>> > > > <jchinnis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > "zee" <outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >Jim Chinnis wrote:
>> > > > > >> "zee" <outrider@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> >Odd. I don't recall you making a similar comment about myriad
>> > > > > >> >obsevational and retrospective studies we've been reading ad
>> > nauseum in
>> > > > > >> >the past year or so, as the date to atorvastatin coming off
>> > > > > >> >patent
>> > > > > >> >approaches....and the markeing dept. high fives each other
> in glee at
>> > > > > >> >yet another goal met.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> Then you haven't read carefully.
>> > > > > >> --
>> > > > > >> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >Well I give. I should have said I don't recall you making a
>> > > > > >similar
>> > > > > >comment about myriad observational and retrospective studies
> we've been
>> > > > > >reading ad nauseum in the past year or so as the date to
>> > > > > >atorvastatin
>> > > > > >coming off patent approaches....and the marketing dept. high
> fives each
>> > > > > >other in glee at yet another goal met...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >Until you were 'convinced'.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >Zee
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I really don't have a bias, Zee. I'm a patient. I take a statin
>> > > > > but would stop in a second if I thought the evidence justified
>> > > > > doing so. I want to know the risks and benefits of all treatments
>> > > > > related to atherosclerosis.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If I accepted the retrospective studies about the wonders of
>> > > > > statins, I was wrong to do so. Normally I would not do that. The
>> > > > > drug companies and masters degree students put out papers and
>> > > > > press releases daily about observational studies that are pure
>> > > > > nonsense. I almost always say that it isn't possible to interpret
>> > > > > a retrospective study or even a prospective study that isn't
>> > > > > randomized.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What are needed are large, long-term, randomized trials.
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>> > > >
>> > > > Jim,
>> > > > When I first started taking statins, my doctors stated or at least
> implied
>> > > > that statins would help solve my problems related to atherosclerosis.
>> > > > Of
>> > > > course, it's possible that I misunderstood her. I now know some
> facts that
>> > > > I did not know at that point in time. If you want to read the article
>> > > > in
>> > > > the medical journal, please let me know and I'll send you the
>> > > > reference
>> > > > info. that you will need.
>> > > >
>> > > > Statins and Plaque (2003)
>> > > >
>> > > > A study published in the American Journal of Cardiology casts serious
>> > > > doubts on the commonly held belief that lowering your
> LDL-cholesterol, the
>> > > > so-called bad cholesterol, is the most effective way to reduced
>> > > > arterial
>> > > > plaque. Researchers at Beth Israel Medical Center in New York City
>> > > > examined the coronary plaque buildup in 182 subjects who took
> statin drugs
>> > > > to lower cholesterol levels. One group of subjects used the drug
>> > > > aggressively (more than 80 mg per day) while the balance of the
>> > > > subjects
>> > > > took less than 80 mg per day. Using electron beam tomography, the
>> > > > researchers measured plaque in all of the subjects before and after a
>> > > > study period of more than one year. The subjects were generally
> successful
>> > > > in lowering their cholesterol, but in the end there was no
>> > > > statistical
>> > > > difference in the two groups in the progression of arterial calcified
>> > > > plaque. On average, subjects in both groups showed a 9.2 percent
> increase
>> > > > in plaque buildup.
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
>> > > > We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
>> > > > We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Jason
>> > >
>> > > It's always a good idea when you are reading something like the above,
>> > > which is someone's opinion, to try to track down the original source of
>> > > the information. Otherwise you are only getting someone else's opinion.
>> > > It's fine to seek other's opinions, but then you have to consider who
>> > > they are, what their bias is, etc. Always best to go to the source.
>> > >
>> > > In this case why don't you get the study, abstract and/or link and
>> > > bring it for Jim to look at. I think you'll get a better reading than
>> > > from Mercola (phooey).
>> > >
>> > > Zee
>> >
>> > Zee,
>> > That's great advice. I don't subscribe to the journal. However, during my
>> > next visit to the city library, I'll take along the reference information
>> > and see if they have old issues of the journal. I know for sure they have
>> > old issues of JAMA because I actually took a great look at some of them.
>> > Does Jim or yourself need the reference info. so that you can read the
>> > article in the journal? If so, just let me know and I will post it. I
>> > don't know what you meant when you mentioned Mercola--I obtained it from
>> > an article written by Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD.
>> > Jason
>> > Jason
>> >
>> > --
>> > NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
>> > We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
>> > We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I won't be translating it for you Jason. But Jim might if you ask
>> nicely. Send good coffee. Bloody steaks. Like that...
>>
>> The article is on Mercola's site. Is he the author or Enig and Fallon,
>> or all three?
>>
>> Either way, the article is an opinion. If it is Enig and Fallon's
>> opinion then who are they? Enig has good scientific credentials, but
>> that in and of itself doesn't make her analysis right. Fallon is in
>> communications. (I'm trying to be polite.)
>>
>> Zee
>
> Zee,
> It's my guess that anyone that writes a summary (or whatever it is called)
> of a medical study makes use of bias. For example, if the person that
> writes the summary works for a company that makes statins--don't you think
> that summary would have biased information? If Enig does have good
> scientific credentials, don't you think that is likely that the summary
> contains accurate information?
> I doubt if Jim will even bother reading the original journal article.
> I hope that you have a wonderful day.
> Jason
>

Jason, you can report back to us on the original journal article. Do you have
the month and date? Where was the article you quoted from published?

Bill



> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>


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