Re: Balanced diet according to Chung WAS:Re: Who should we trust?

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:53:59 -0400, "Bob (this one)" <Bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>John wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:48:11 -0400, "Bob (this one)" <Bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>John wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Bob (this one)" <Bob@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>John wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Bob (this one)" <Bob@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>John wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I keep trying to show you guys that I am not Dr. Chung. Do you
>>>>>>>>believe me yet?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes. You're even dimmer than he is. What's that hand sticking out of
>>>>>>>your back...?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Anyway, I we responding to the previous poster's
>>>>>>>>apparent desire to change it to 2lbD or something, hard to tell, she's
>>>>>>>>possibly having a maroon day. I was merely giving you how I always
>>>>>>>>decoded 2PD, not the full history of how others may or my not have
>>>>>>>>encoded or decoded it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here's some news for you, "John." Nobody cares what you call it. It's
>>>>>>>not about you, has nothing to do with you and it's really only about
>>>>>>>Chung's blowhole denial that his 2 pound diet isn't a diet.

Just curious, but you seem to care what I call it - at least you cared
enough to provide the above 'offering'. Are you nobody?

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And, to further educate you, a balanced diet is one where the food is
>>>>>>>blessed by God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>John
>>>>>>>>p.s. better watch out - I'm a week out of heart surgery and starting
>>>>>>>>to get fiesty again. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Guess eating 2 pounds of food a day didn't help with your heart health,
>>>>>>>huh? Need to be eating more of that "balanced diet" of Chung's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, the heart issues preexisted my trying 2PD by several years and,
>>>>>>as far as I know, BMI and food have very little to do with atrial
>>>>>>fibrillation which was my problem. My arteries are slippery clean.
>>>>>>Always have been. Genetic, I guess. Low BP ~110-70 w/o meds. Great
>>>>>>lipids w/o meds. Just this little rhythm problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>And you say that prayer didn't help?
>>>>
>>>>I said no such thing. In fact, prayer has helped me with this
>>>>situation in every possible way,
>>>
>>>Except getting rid of it. And given that, there's nothing you can point
>>>to that would definitely have been different without your prayer. All
>>>assertion, no proof.
>>
>> You seem to be demanding some kind of proof. But even you should know
>> that this is a matter of faith and that proof is neither required nor
>> possible. It is my belief that God heard the prayers and answered
>> them favorably.
>
>See, "John," you just asserted the obverse of what I said. You said that
>prayer has helped "in every possible way." That's clearly not true.
>Every possible way would include to make it disappear. In that clear
>lack, and no outcome that can't be more rationally be explained
>otherwise, I implied a simple question: what's *demonstrably* different
>than it would have been without all this prayer? Prove your assertion.
>You say it made a difference. Show don't tell.
>
>You say there is no proof and that none is required *if you have faith*.
>But if readers don't have your faith in the seeming non-events you
>describe, then you have nothing to offer.

I guess I would agree that I would have nothing to offer people of no
faith, except, of course, faith itself and my testimony of how it has
helped me in my life.

>>>>from coping with it as long as
>>>>possible, to sorting out all the possible alternatives, to selection
>>>>of procedure, doctor and hospital. Every step of the way was covered
>>>>in prayer and because of this I could step out in confidence that God
>>>>was leading me every step of the way.
>>>
>>>But that hand sticking out of your back typed that if anything is asked
>>>in the name of Jesus, it would happen. Period.
>>>
>>>So either you didn't ask that way for a cure or it didn't happen if you
>>>did. Either way, it didn't happen. As for being led each step of the
>>>way, so much for free will. Or was it you free choice to follow the
>>>instructions?
>>
>> Of course.
>
>But what happened to that "If you ask for it you'll get it" thing? Not
>true? If true, did you not ask for it to go away?

I asked for a direct cure. Sometimes the answer to a prayer is "no."
I needed to ask again. And ask differently.

>>>If so, what form did these instructions take? Voices?
>>>Email? Clouds forming words? A booming voice from above that only you
>>>could hear?
>>
>> No, just a sweet certainty that I was following His path.
>
>No messages you can refer to. No fiery words writ large across the
>heavens. What distinguishes this from talking to yourself? That "sweet
>certainty" with no process of communication is a bit troublesome to
>rational thinkers, I'm afraid. So there's no actual indication of that
>"path" available?

It has been my experience that most of this takes place primarily in
the realm of ideas. Ideas are interesting things in that they do not
have to obey all the usual laws of physics. An idea has no matter,
takes up no space, responds to no forces or fields, etc, etc. But
yet, once you have an idea, you've got it, no one can take it away
from you (you could forget it I suppose.) Can you explain how you get
an idea? Having had many good and valuable ideas myself (many
patented inventions), I cannot tell you how ideas come - they just do.

But if I followed Pastorio's logic, ideas don't exist because you
can't "prove" how they came to be. You can't prove that they even
exist. (Side note: one way to tell that you've got a REALLY good idea
is that almost no one believes it initially. Of course this is
frequently true for bad ideas too. )

I believe that many of the ideas that I've had have come directly from
God. Why me? I don't know. My working theory of this is that God
decides it is time for mankind to have a certain idea and so he
'whispers' it into the ears of some people that He has chosen to favor
or that He knows will put the ideas into action. He tells many people
because He's making sure the idea just doesn't get lost. He can do
this without violating anyone's free will or violating His own Laws of
Physics.

When one specifically prays for help with something, a likely mode the
answer can take is in the form of an idea - an idea of how to solve
the problem yourself or to find some one else who can if you cannot.
E.g., select an MD to provide you with a treatment for your ailment.

>>>>>I can't understand why it didn't
>>>>>instantly cure you.
>>>>
>>>>And who would you be to dictate the manner in which God choses to
>>>>answer a prayer?
>>>
>>>Oh, it's not me.
>>
>> This seems like a lie as the sentence above starts with the word "I"
>> not "Chung". You say "I can't understand...."
>
***profane and stupid bloviating deleted***

>>>It's Chung saying that anything you ask for properly is
>>>guaranteed. Some part of that isn't quite correct, huh...?
>>
>> What part doesn't seem to be working? Seems to me like it is working
>> wonderfully.
>
>Puhleeeze, "John." You still have the residue of your illness and you
>always will, by your own words.

I don't know what you're talking about here. I don't recall saying
any such thing. You must have misunderstood me. I am still
recovering from the surgery - incisions healing, cut muscles healing,
scarred heart tissue healing, etc, etc, but the process is well along
and I expect to be totally symptom free within about 3 months.

>The part that makes it all go away is
>what's missing. The big, measurable, demonstrable part. The part that
>says "something actually happened." The "I asked for it and got it" part.

I prayed for help in solving my health problem. I got that help in
the form of guidance to the solution that I then followed. I also got
help screwing up the courage to let someone cut me open and mess with
my heart.

>>>>>According to the hand sticking out of your back... I
>>>>>mean Chung, if you fundies pray for *anything*, it *will* happen. Chung
>>>>>said that. *Guaranteed.*
>>>>
>>>>I cashed in that guarantee.
>>>
>>>Looks like that check was returned marked "insufficient Fundies."
>>
>> Looks to me like it was marked "paid in full".
>
>Sure it was. You're still afflicted but everything is exactly as you
>would have it. Very believable.

Not afflicted at all. Healing.

>>>This is seriously hilarious, I think. Insufficient fundies...Bwah...
>>
>> Cute. See what happens when you try to cash the "cute" check.
>
>There are no checks, "John." There aren't even balances.
>
>I'm still funny.

This must be Buddhist humor - the sound of one hand clapping?

>The real facts here are that Chung's assertions about that "pray and
>whatever you ask for, you get" certainly hasn't been borne out with you.
>The illness didn't go away miraculously. You asked and it didn't happen,
>unless in your faith, you don't really believe it works that way and
>didn't ask. But the net effect is as though there were no prayer.
>Nothing's demonstrably different with it.

Already refuted above.

>>>>>No, seriously...
>>>>
>>>>Yes, seriously...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Since I got home from the hospital, I see that my weight has been
>>>>>>dropping about 1/2 lb/day while continuing 2PD as before. I had been
>>>>>>on a plateau for a few months. I'm wondering if the fact that my
>>>>>>resting heart rate is now up to 60 from 45 before surgery has jacked
>>>>>>up my metabolism a little bit? Or maybe its just the prednisone
>>>>>>they're giving me to help the healing process. (Better watch out for
>>>>>>that 'roid rage.)
>>>>>
>>>>>And watch the famous Prednisone weight gain. Probably ought to cut it to
>>>>>the 1.5 Pound Diet while you're taking it.
>>>>
>>>>God is taking care of this too, as He has everything else.
>>>
>>>Except your ongoing health. If your health is dependent on what the
>>>doctors do, and that's what your explanations say, then lay out again
>>>what role anything divine had?
>>
>> Do you think that some random person cannot be the instrument of God's
>> Will? Who are you to limit what God can do or how He does it?
>
>Non sequitur, "John." Based on your reports, what the doctors did is
>what fixed you to whatever degree you're fixed. There's not one iota of
>indication that prayer made any difference to any part of the whole episode.

Yes, the surgeons' hands moved, I was cured. I believe that God
answered my prayers to guide the surgeons' hands. I believe that God
helped me select the surgeon and the procedure.

>>>>>>John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>p.s. Bob, do you think you could lose that nasty tone that infects
>>>>>>all you write?
>>>>>
>>>>>"John," you know I'd do almost anything for you, such good friends we've
>>>>>become. And you know how much I admire the utterly genuine expressions
>>>>>you've posted here over the decades. But, see, that nasty tone is
>>>>>directly the responsibility of my XP operating system. Damn thing gets
>>>>>all wordy with my close friends; says nasty things. I'm totally serious
>>>>>about this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You words sound to me like a new tobacco chewer -
>>>>>>every word brings forth a stream of nasty stuff. Yeechh.
>>>>>
>>>>>"John," It's obvious you didn't pay attention in that creative writing
>>>>>class where they talked about creating images. The other thing is that
>>>>>things remind you of things, much like things remind Chung of things.
>>>>>I'm sure you see the problem. And I'm sure you can see that saying my
>>>>>words sound "like a new tobacco chewer..." well, I'm sure on reflection
>>>>>you'll be appropriately embarrassed. Even mortified.
>>>>>
>>>>>And, as Chung would have you be aware of: "And, to further educate you,
>>>>>a balanced diet is one where the food is blessed by God." Have some of
>>>>>that, "John," it'll pick you right up. It'll say that on the label
>>>>>somewhere. Big fiery thumbprint.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, every day. We ask God to bless our food to the use of our
>>>>bodies. He does.
>>>
>>><LOL>> You're descending to Chung's level now. The earmarks of this
>>>blessing is what? That it's suddenly a "balanced diet?" - that's what he
>>>says it is. That it gives you less gas? What a wonderfully unmeasurable
>>>thing you offer.
>>
>> People call it faith. Yep, it's hard to measure. But people who have
>> faith require no quantitative measure of the immeasurable.
>
>It's not hard to measure faith; it's impossible. It's also impossible to
>measure dishonesty. But that's not what the subject is right here. It's
>what this blessing actually does to food. And how you know anything
>happens. your words are: " We ask God to bless our food to the use of
>our bodies. He does." And you know that how...?

I believe it to be true. No proof needed or possible.

>>>And you've said you're an engineer. Indiscernible
>>>"change" with no process involved that can be measured. Yet you say
>>>something has happened. And what exactly is this blessing? Has it
>>>changed the chemical composition? If not, what's the difference? If yes,
>>>how has that been determined? And to what has it been changed?
>>
>> You sound like one of the mockers standing at the foot of the cross as
>> described in Matthew 27:41-43.
>
>Yeah. Everything reminds you of something. Try for an original thought
>sometime instead of quoting some other source.
>
>I don't mock Jesus; I mock you and your fatuous echoes of Chung's
>lunacy. You've offered all these pieces of faith and not a single thing
>that your belief can support in daily life. Not a single change, not a
>single improvement. But you have that "sweet certainty" in the face of
>not one thing that you can say supports it.

No, you are mocking faith.

>Engineers are empiricists; and you sure ain't either one.

An empiricist I am. By that, I mean, I use what works. For me,
prayer and faith work. They could work for you, too, Bob.

John
.

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