Re: 'Statin' drugs reduce fracture risk in men

I think the rest of you will be pleased to hear that I have GIVEN up trying
to discourse reasonably with an unreasonable person such as Zee

anyone walking (0r running ) around with her lipids deserves whatever
befalls her...


"Zee" <fresh~horses@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1127946379.518049.161260@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Hawki63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>> "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:72clj15en5hau8rteni962iljnq69fek85@xxxxxxxxxx
>> > <Hawki63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:
>> >
>> >>I never said NOT to exercise...just that it is impossible to build
>> >>significant bone at age 60 ...and with drugs..only a very little
>> >>amount...diminish bone loss perhaps...but build bone??




>> >>
>> >>again..you need some advanced education in the physiology of bones...
>> >
>> > The density of bone depends on the balance between resorption of bone
>> > and
>> > creation of bone throughout life. There is a lot of research ongoing
>> > about
>> > how to shift that balance one way or another.
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> I just re read this post...and you are absolutely correct....
>>
>> the "bone drugs"..ie Fosamax et al..."build bones" only in the context
>> that
>> they reduce bone resorption..so the bone building guys are not overtaken
>>
>> ie osteoblasts vs osteoclasts...
>>
>> and yes...bone remodeling is a life long process...
>>
>> however...it still is a fact that age and gender and estrogen etc plays a
>> huge part in this process....the reason that post menopausal females are
>> at
>> the greatest risk of "bone loss"...because their source of estrogen is
>> gradually but surely decreased as menopause approaches...to the point
>> that
>> post menopausal gals have verrrrrry little estrogen...
>>
>> it has also become common knowledge that veryyyyy thin females..ie the
>> skeltons of today's stars...etc..should lead to a much higher incidence
>> of
>> osteoporosis when THEY become "old"....in fact...mannny many of the super
>> thin ALREADY have osteoporosis..due to little or no body fat..to the
>> point
>> of menses stopping..
>>
>> again...we must emphasize that strong bones are BUILT in the teens 20 and
>> 30
>> year ages....beyond that...the osteoclasts begin to overtake the
>> osteoblasts...so remodeling takes place at a slower pace.
>>
>> surely...adequate diet (calcium etc) and weight bearing exercise at the
>> YOUNGER ages is the biggest issue....
>>
>> not to mention the "other" issues that effect bone health..ie meds such
>> as
>> steroids used in autoimmune ailments such as lupus...thryoid
>> imbalances...etc etc...
>>
>> it is not a cut and dried issue...
>> > --
>> > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
>
>
> My bone density isn't "holding its own". I increased it post menopause.
> I built bone and bone density and have been tested as having done so.




>
> I am athletic and have been all my life


with the exception of my two
> years on LIPITOR and BAYCOL and approx. THREE years of POST STATIN
> DISABILITY. I am not talking about a walk after dinner type exercise,
> but the type of athleticism which requires solid muscle and solid bone
> density; weight lifting, climbing, paddling, hiking with a 25 lb pack,
> bench pressing my own weight.
>
> I am not unique. There are other women like me. I know so, because I
> taught workout and weight lifting classes to them; every one
> post-menopausal. Every one built muscle mass, and though in them it
> wasn't measured,


.. It is impossible not
> to do so, if you are of moderate health (there were a couple with
> oxygen tanks in the class--no excuses from them) and pushing a
> progressive program of weight lifting designed for you. See the
> reference in the article below for information re muscle and bone.
>
> Fosamax is not what you and pharma portray it to be:


>
> http://www.cwhn.ca/network-reseau/7-4/7-4pg3.html
>
> "Fosamax may reduce hip fractures by just **one percent** (although
> even this is disputed). In real terms, this means that 90 at-risk women
> would need to be treated for three years to prevent one hip fracture in
> one of them. The remaining 89 would receive no benefit. It is estimated
> that hundreds of women aged 50 years with low bone density would need
> to be treated for more than three years to prevent one hip fracture in
> one of the groups.
> Leading osteoporosis authority Professor Ego Seeman of the University
> of Melbourne, Australia, poses the question:
>
> "Should we expose huge numbers of these women [age 50 and with low
> bone density] to a drug, its costs, inconveniences, side-effects, when
> most will not sustain a fracture had no treatment been given? That is,
> most who take the drug will be exposed to the risk of side-effects and
> costs and receive no benefit...This is the nature of preventive
> medicine; we have to treat large numbers to avert events in few. This
> is why the drugs we use must be safe-because most exposed do not
> benefit, and even a small number of adverse events can tip the balance
> of net benefit to net harm (www.medscape.com/viewarticle/443214).
>
> Although a recent study showed that bone mineral density continued to
> increase with up to 10 years of Fosamax use, it is not clear that this
> means a reduction in fracture. Another recent study found that
> osteonecrosis (bone death) of the jaw following dental procedures is a
> new complication of bisphosphonate therapy. Dr. Ego Seeman warns, "We
> still need to answer the following question: Do drugs that suppress
> bone remodelling reduce or increase the risk of fracture in the long
> term?"
>
> # Exercise often! **The force of muscles pulling against bone
> stimulates bone remodelling and formation.**
>
> Higher impact activities like running, jumping and jogging are very
> effective, but regular aerobic exercise such as walking is also
> beneficial. Weight bearing exercises, resistance training, and
> flexibility and balancing exercises like Pilates, Tai Chi and yoga are
> also important. Research has demonstrated that we can benefit from
> exercise at any age-even centenarians will experience an increase in
> strength, stamina and muscle mass. Exercise programs have been found to
> reduce the frequency of falls in high-risk older people.
>
> # Don't rush into taking drugs that may influence bone density but
> at present have little known benefit in terms of reducing fractures.
>
> ################
>
>
> ARCH INTERN MED/VOL 165, FEB 14, 2005. P346-7
>
> EDITOR'S CORRESPONDENCE
>
>
> Alendronate (FOSAMAX) and Risedronate: Reports of Severe Bone, Joint,
> and Muscle Pain
>
> The oral bisphosphonate alendronate sodium (Fosamax; Merck & Co Inc,
> Whitehouse Station, NJ) was first approved for osteoporosis by the Food
> and Drug Administration (FDA) in September 1995. From its initial
> marketing date and up to November 2002, the FDA received Serious
> Adverse Event (SAE) (defined as death, life threatening,
> hospitalization [initial or prolonged], disability, congenital anomaly,
> required intervention to prevent permanent impairment or damage, or
> important medical event) reports of severe bone, joint, and/or muscle
> pain, that developed in 112 women, 4 men, 1 adult of unknown sex, and l
> child after starting therapy with the drug. The age range was 7 to 84
> years; (n= 109; median=67 years). The child was a 7 year old boy who
> mistakenly received alendronate instead of methylphenidate and
> developed extreme bone pain in his hips, knees, and ankles after l
> dose.
>
> Bones, joints, and muscles throughout the body were affected. In some
> individuals, pain began at 1 site and then migrated and became diffuse.
> lt was often described as "severe," "extreme," "disabling," or
> "incapacitating." Many patients were unable to walk, climb stairs, or
> perform usual activities. Some became bedridden, and others required
> walkers, crutches, or wheelchairs. Many underwent numerous diagnostic
> tests with mostly normal findings.
>
> For the 96 patients with information, the alendronate doses were 5 mg/d
> (n = 4; 4%); 10 mg/d (n = 7 1; 74%); 20 to 35 mg/d (n = 4; 4%); and 70
> mg/wk (n = 17; 18%). The median time to onset of pain after starting
> alendronate therapy was 14 days (n= 107; range, same day to 52 months
> [mean=91 days]). Pain was treated with a variety of analgesics
> including opioids and ketorolac. Of 83 patients with information, 55
> (66%) experienced relief after alendronate therapy was discontinued.
> Nine U 1%) of the 83 patients redeveloped pain following
> re-administration of the drug therapy. After discontinuation of the
> drug treatment, some patients experienced immediate improvement while
> the majority had more gradual improvement.
>
> The FDA received 6 US SAE reports of severe bone, joint, or muscle pain
> for risedronate sodium (Actonel; Procter & Gamble Pharmaceuticals,
> Cincinnati, Ohio), and less widely used bisphosphonate, between initial
> marketing in September 1998 and June 2003. The data suggest a possible
> class effect.
>
> The clinical trials leading to FDA approval of alendronate and
> risedronate were reviewed and did not show meaningful differences
> between drug and placebo for SAE ports of severe bone, joint, and/or
> muscle pain. However, differences in reported adverse events are
> sometimes seen for market place experience compared with pre-approved
> clinical trails.
>
> Underreporting of pain is probably considerable because of its
> subjective nature and because physicians may attribute pain to
> osteoporosis. Serious or severe bone, joint, and/or muscle pain that
> begins shortly after bisphosphonate use should be reported to
> physicians for consideration of discontinuing drug therapy.
>
> Diane K. Wysowski, PhD
> Jennie T. Chang, PharmD
>
> Correspondence: Dr Wysowski, Division of Drug Risk Evaluation, HFD 430,
> Food and Drug Administration, Parklawn Building, Room 15B 08,
> Rockville, MD 20857 (diane.wysowski@xxxxxxxxxxx).
>



.

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