Re: Good to see you back Andrew

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:46:00 -0600, Pramesh Rutajit
<p2976221tongue@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>John wrote:
>
>>>Or perhaps Allah, or any number of mythical beings promising everlasting
>>>life - pick a myth and take your chances! The christ myth is one in which
>>>the christ picks you, you don't earn anything, and his "picking" is
>>>according to some random algorithm that has nothing to do with your
>>>actions.
>>
>> This is not the Christianity I know. The "algorithm" is executed in
>> your own mind. If you, of your OWN free will, give your life to
>> Christ, you will be saved. No "picking". It's up to you.
>
>Except, your god only saves the "elect". And who "elects" them? Your god!
>I don't know why I always have to teach christianity to alledged
>christians. There is no act/works that someone can preformed to advance
>their personal salavation - it is saved by grace alone, not by works. Now
>if you believe that some kind of perosnal act, a work, can acvance your
>"elective" status, you are off in the christian weeds. If you believe that
>obediance to commandments are necessary but not sufficent for salvation,
>you are somewhere in the middle, but this is a very small subset of
>christians.

You seem to be talking about Calvinism. Most branches of Christianity
believe that men must choose believe in and follow God, not the other
way around. When I say most, I'm talking about Catholics, Methodists,
Baptists, Lutherans, etc. It is my understanding that Calvinism talks
about predestination but this is not applicable to most Christians (or
to me.)

>>>Your god in your myth made each person exactly the way he wanted
>>>each person, genetic defects and imperfections and all. Hence, if you're
>>>fucked you're fucked (and were predestined to be fucked) and you should
>>>praise Christ for being fucked while your burn in hell for ever. If
>>>you're saved you're saved, and well, the same praises except you get to
>>>have the monotony of eternal praising.
>>
>> He made us all in His image. Of all the aspects of His image, the
>> most important are love and free will. He has them. He created us
>> with them.
>
>And 98% primate with an omnipotent phalus (but I guess christians see god as
>hermaphodite)! <grin> God the primate, it's got a nice ring to it. He
>did say the "kingdom of God is within you", DNA? In any case, Free will
>is irrational in a univerise created by an omnipotent all knowing god who
>got the exact results he designed (unless there are some aspects of
>creation over which he has no control and then he wouldn't be omnipotent).
>Nothing occurs that cannot ultimately be back tracked effect back to cause
>back to cause ... back to your god. He tossed the dice and yelled free
>will before they landed -- NOT. Thats myths for you.

God GAVE us free will. He is omnipotent and could take it back if He
wanted to but He doesn't want to. Why? He gave us free will because
He wants us to love Him which we can only do if we are free to reject
Him, as you are doing. Without free will, we would be mere robots.

>>>In any case, the "perfect" god you depend on
>>>created a world full of evil because an evil world was what he wanted. If
>>>he had wanted a non-evil world, he would or could have created one
>>>(according to the omnipotent fiction of the Christ myth). Admit it, your
>>>christ created evil because that is christ's nature, red in tooth and
>>>claw. The evil in the world proves that your christ doesn't exist except
>>>in your
>>>own deluded mind. I don't know how rational people can take mythical
>>>stores and enflesh them in literalness and then insist that they're
>>>personal god bull*** is the god bull*** everyone should partake of!
>>
>> A world without the possibility of evil would also be a world without
>> choice. A world without choice would be a world without love. The
>> worst of the evils in this world are caused by people making bad
>> choices with their free will.
>
>A world with choice is a world in which it's agents are co-eternal with god
>and can act independly of your god's will even if god's will is something
>other than these co-eternal agents choose. To assert free will is to deny
>your god's omnipotents. You cannot have it both ways.

We ARE co-eternal with God. We CAN act independent of God's will.
God remains omnipotent because He CHOOSES through His own free will to
allow us to have our free will choices.

>>>In any case, your god kills daily, has no morals, and is impotentant. How
>>>anyone can trust in something that is a source of constant and complete
>>>failure is beyond rationality. I don't know why think all this death by
>>>your Christ is such a good and holy thing. The Christ myth is complete
>>>bull***.
>>
>> People kill daily, have no morals and are impotent to save themselves.
>
>Explains your god exactly.

Nope. As I said, this applies to people. It also applies to Satan.
God is the omnipotent, all knowing, all loving creator of the
universe. I hope you come to know Him.

John
.

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