Re: Good overview of pantethine, Europe and Japan's safe and effective alternative to statin drugs; Pantethine is considered "atoxic" due to its superior safety profile

Susan <nevermind@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>Jim Chinnis wrote:
>
>> You think there are NONE? At the very least, i'd think you'd be satisfied
>> that a statin has been shown to do the same thing you claim is the benefit
>> of pantethine, which is to reduce LDL and improve lipid risk factors.
>> ...
>
>But as you pointed out, the benefit of doing so isn't proven, just the
>fact of it.

We are going in circles. Don't you believe the data from statin research
that shows that statins reduce LDL? You said, "We also differ as to whether
there are any data with any integrity wrt to statins." (I even have
confidence in the reported relative potency of the different statins, having
personal/family experience with several that did exactly what they were
advertised to do.)

>My problem with the pharma research is what % of it to believe and which
>not to? Once you know it's common practice to manipulate data, how do
>you choose which to believe?

I think you have to look at the convergence of data, both from laboratory
studies and clinical trials. It takes quite a few somewhat independent
studies to be even slightly convincing. Data manipulation fails at a point,
always.

I think the greatest opportunity for data manipulation is in the reporting
of adverse effects, not as much so in the reporting of benefits.

>> Actually, the main reason is that the only way to reduce LDL to below 70
>> mg/dl or so is to use a statin, usually in a high dose. So it's not easy to
>> sort out whether an effect comes from the cholesterol reduction effect of
>> the statin or from some other effect.
>
>And how did 70 become a magic number, other than in marketing term, that is?

Nothing magic about it. I picked it because statistically you need a long
curve over LDL before you can sort out LDL-lowering effects from other
effects of statins. The lower the better for that purpose.

>BTW, wrt pantethine and inflammation, I've found many statements in
>references, including the PDR info page, that pantethine inhibits
>thromboxane A2. I just can't pin down where that assertion, repeated in
>many documents, arises from.

I don't doubt it. It's just like a lot of drugs that reduce certain risk
factors turn out not to improve health or even worsen it. There's no
substitute for a large randomized trial (preferably pre-specified in a
publication and with all data accessible to reviewers) that uses hard
endpoints.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Blog on Statins FYI
    ... the Track Your Plaque program. ... yield big drops in LDL. ... Exercise, weight loss, niacin, oat bran, ground ... possible to lower LDL cholesterol by diet as much as by statin ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: Liver test 2X normal is OK?
    ... >> My cardiologist said the liver test while taking statins is all right if 2X ... >> the maximum blood test guideline and the patient only has to be monitored. ... >> the statin is working. ... >> LDL: 75 ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • MIRACL results show ACS statin benefits not LDL dependent [further analysis]
    ... MIRACL results show ACS statin benefits not LDL dependent ... LDL cholesterol levels before statin treatment did ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: Blog on Statins FYI
    ... the Track Your Plaque program. ... yield big drops in LDL. ... Exercise, weight loss, niacin, oat bran, ground ... possible to lower LDL cholesterol by diet as much as by statin ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: Blog on Statins FYI
    ... the need for these drugs. ... yield big drops in LDL. ... Exercise, weight loss, niacin, oat bran, ground ... possible to lower LDL cholesterol by diet as much as by statin ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)