Re: Good overview of pantethine, Europe and Japan's safe and effective alternative to statin drugs; Pantethine is considered "atoxic" due to its superior safety profile


"Susan" <nevermind@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:40go9gF1ajqreU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Let me characterize your posts again rather than replying to each and
every
> > point and that being, you will say and do anything to get people from
taking
> > statins.
>
> Robert, not only is it inappropriate for you to attempt to characterize
> my posts, but as usual, you got it wrong.

Again you bring up berries now so no I won't argue about berries or about
every other item in this 50 posts thread or the next 10 foods, supplements
and drugs and thus my characterization.
Foods can kill and simply implying that because they are foods or
supplements or non-prescription that they are harmless again gets back to my
point.

Statins are available over the counter as Red Rice Yeast and the makers of
statins wanted to make them available over the counter. Just because
anything is available over the counter does not make them harmless.

>
> I *will* say and do anything to get people to make fully informed
> choices and to think for themselves beyond the spoonfeeding that tends
> to prevail in clinical practice.
Some of the spoon feeding comes from you and others who translate n=1 to all
people dying from rhabdo.


I don't want the responsibility for
> other people's choices, but I am all for patients, not doctors or
> pharmas, being the ultimate informed decision makers.

Medicine really isn't a democracy. You can't protect people from themselves
and after you see alcoholics kill themselves with each drink it sinks in
pretty quick.
The real problem is that people have no concept of prevention or trying to
prevent anything. It is a hard sell.
After a heart attack then people find religion and then the "patients
choices" come back to bit them in the butt. People are transformed and all
of a sudden it's not a hard sell anymore.

> Vitamin E is an OTC dietary supplement. Unless you have a new definition
> of "drug?"

Tylenol is OTC and the number one killer in OTC's.

"In any case, the FDA ruling on red rice yeast was overturned by the court
of the District of Utah, citing PL 103-417. As a result, you can now buy red
rice yeast (and thus, lovastatin) over the counter in completely unregulated
quantities.

Because lovastatin is an effective cholesterol-lowering agent, red rice
yeast really does lower cholesterol levels. But lovastatin is a serious
drug, with potentially serious side effects, and it seems best not to get
such a drug from unregulated sources. If you want to take a statin drug, you
should consider getting it from your doctor - the person who can tailor the
dosage you need, and provide the appropriate follow-up (including blood
tests to look for signs of muscle or liver damage,) to minimize the risk of
side effects. "

http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/cholesterol/a/Nrxcol_rry.htm



>
> I'm going to insist that you provide some good authoritative citations
> about garlic, vitamin E, alpha lipoic acid, berries, ascorbic acid, etc.
> causing Parkinsonism and AD, please.

I did not say it causes Parkinson's or AD. I said if you do a long term
study with any drug you will find conditions reported while on the study and
will be reported as < 1% reported cases.
>
> > "Many patients also use herbal preparations with known anticoagulant
> > properties, which may contribute to bleeding complications. Garlic
inhibits
> > platelet aggregation in a dose-dependent manner. Spontaneous epidural
> > hematoma and bleeding during prostatectomy have been reported in
association
> > with garlic supplementation.
>
> Well, duh. That's why one is supposed to be asked, as I was prior to
> surgery, if I took any drugs or supplements. I was told to stop garlic,
> fish oil and vit E prior to surgery. That's a mark against the surgeon
> or a non-compliant patient, not vit E. The same is true of aspirin.

The confusion comes from people assuming as you have that supplements are
harmless while drugs are harmful. You are the one comparing eating berries
to garlic vs dangerous drugs.
Most of the supplements and foods are not really studied no where near what
prescription drugs are.

> No one has mentioned Ginkgo here. Is it a statin, too?
>
> Susan
>
>

We get the point that you think statins are evil. They are a drug among
drugs including pantethine, garlic and others.

Here is how I define Drug

any animal, vegetable, or mineral substance used in the composition of
medicines.


a substance that is used as a medicine or narcotic

A drug is any substance that can be used to modify a chemical process or
processes in the body, for example to treat an illness, relieve a symptom,
enhance a performance or ability, or to alter states of mind. The word
"drug" is etymologically derived from the Dutch/Low German word "droog",
which means "dry", since in the past, most drugs were dried plant parts.

Any substance presented for treating, curing or preventing disease in human
beings or in animals. A drug may also be used for making a medical diagnosis
or for restoring, correcting, or modifying physiological functions.

a substance used as or in medicine

a substance that, when administered to an organism or a system derived from
an organism, may modify one or more of its functions

Any substance which when absorbed into a living organism may modify one or
more of its functions. The term is generally accepted for a substance taken
for a therapeutic purpose, but is also commonly used for abused substances.
Synonymous with medicine, pharmaceutical.


.

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