Re: Study: Praying Won't Affect Heart Patients


"William Wagner" <not-to-here-williamwag@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:not-to-here-williamwag-315D55.12285801042006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In article <Xns9796DB7C77592some1outthere@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
listener <listener@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

NEW YORK - Does praying for a sick person's recovery do any good? In the
largest scientific test of its kind, heart surgery patients showed no
benefit when strangers prayed for their recovery.

And patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher
rate of complications. The researchers could only guess why.

Several scientists questioned the concept of the study. Science "is not
designed to study the supernatural," said Dr. Harold G. Koenig, director
of the Center for Spirituality, Theology and Health at the Duke
University Medical Center.

The researchers who tested the power of prayer emphasized that their $2.4
million study could not address whether God exists or answers prayers
made on another's behalf. The study could look only for effects from the
specific prayers offered as part of the research, they said.

The highly anticipated study "did not move us forward or backward" in
understanding the effects of prayer, said Dr. Charles Bethea, a co-author
and cardiologist at the Integris Baptist Medical Center in Oklahoma City.
"Intercessory prayer under our restricted format had a neutral effect."

Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School, co-principal investigator
of the study, agreed. "We cannot come to a conclusion, except to say that
by this study design, with its limitations, this is what we found."

The researchers also said they didn't know why patients who knew they
were being prayed for had a higher rate of complications than patients
who only knew that such prayers were a possibility.

Maybe they became anxious by the knowledge that they'd been selected for
prayers, Bethea said: "Did the patients think, 'I am so sick that they
had to call in the prayer team?'"

The researchers said family and friends shouldn't be discouraged from
telling a patient about their plans to pray for a good recovery.

Experts called it the largest and best-designed study ever to test the
medical effects of intercessory prayers ? praying on behalf of someone
else. That's different from studying the effect of a person's prayers and
spiritual practices on his or her own health; many studies of that have
shown a positive effect.

The new study followed about 1,800 patients at six medical centers. It
was financed by the Templeton Foundation, which supports research into
science and religion, and one of the participating hospitals. It will
appear in Tuesday's issue of the American Heart Journal.

The research team tested the effect of having three Christian groups pray
for particular patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing
for two weeks. The volunteers prayed for "a successful surgery with a
quick, healthy recovery and no complications" for specific patients ?
their identities known only by first name and first initial of the last
name.

The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600
apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed
for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren't prayed for
but were told it was a possibility.

The researchers didn't ask patients or their families and friends to
alter any plans they had for prayer, saying such a step would have been
unethical and impractical.

The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery.
Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But
among patients who did receive prayers, 59 percent of the patients who
knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52
percent of those who were told it was just a possibility.

Paul Kurtz, professor emeritus of philosophy at the State University of
New York at Buffalo, and chairman of the Committee for the Scientific
Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, had a blunt response when
asked why he thought the study found no effect of prayer.

"Because there is none," he said. "That would be one answer."

He added that while he tries to keep an open mind, he's seen no good
evidence for such an effect in past studies. The new work, he said,
"gives added emphasis to those who have been skeptical."

Koenig, of Duke University Medical Center, who didn't take part in the
study, said the results didn't surprise him.

"There are no scientific grounds to expect a result and there are no real
theological grounds to expect a result either," he said. "There is no god
in either the Christian, Jewish or Muslim scriptures that can be
constrained to the point that they can be predicted."

Within the Christian tradition, God would be expected to be concerned
with a person's eternal salvation, he said, and "why would God change his
plans for a particular person just because they're in a research study?"

Dr. David Stevens, executive director of the Christian Medical and Dental
Associations, said he believes intercessory prayer can influence medical
outcomes, but that science is not equipped to explore it.

"Do we control God through prayer? Theologians would say absolutely not.
God decides sometimes to intervene, and sometimes not," he said.

As for the new study, he said, "I don't think ... it's going to stop
people praying for the sick."

Found this and thought it was worth pondering.

Bill who thinks of the sick (I'm one) and cooks what they liked ;))..
.........................

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/



March 31, 2006
HIGH STAKES TESTING....I guess everyone's heard the news about the new
prayer study, right? A team of researchers asked several church
congregations to pray for heart surgery patients at six different
hospitals and then tracked how well they recovered from surgery compared
to patients who weren't prayed for. The result was null. Neither group
did better than the other.
But I've got a question about this. As I recall from Sunday School,
testing God is supposed to be a no-no. In the second of the three
temptations of Christ, Satan takes Jesus to the top of a temple and
tells him to jump off in order to prove that God will save him from
death. Jesus refuses, saying, "It is written, 'You shall not put the
Lord your God to the test.'"
It's the same deal for prayer: it works, but not if it's being done for
the purpose of testing that it works. It's sort of the Heisenberg
Uncertainty Principle of Christianity.
So here's my question. Christian doctrine says that testing the Lord
won't work, which means a study like this is useless. Scientists say
that science isn't meant to test supernatural phenomena, which means a
study like this is useless. But if everyone agrees that a study like
this is useless, why did the John Templeton Foundation spend $2.4
million on it? What's the point?
UPDATE: Just to make this super-duper clear, I'm not saying the study
was useless because I'm an atheist and I don't believe in prayer. I'm
saying it's useless because even Christians don't think a study like
this would produce any positive results. That's assuming I understand
Christian doctrine correctly, of course.
And don't bother suggesting that the folks doing the praying didn't know
they were part of a test. Double blind protocols might work for us
earthly humans, but they wouldn't fool God.


I'm concerned it is just arrogant to ask God to change his mind when he
settles on one path - because he is all knowing.

Bill


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