Re: Do drugs {including statins} and procedures benefit women and men equally?

On Sep 12, 12:19 pm, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
bigvince <Vince.Mirag...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in part:





On Sep 12, 10:38 am, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Vince, I think you start from a position that I can't disagree with:

"No randomized controlled trial has shown an all-cause mortality reduction
in women specifically at a p-level less than 0.05."

Well we agree that no study or meta analysis has show mortality
reduction in women. Jim if there was one I am sure you would have
found it.

You then drop mentioning the requirement for your magic number 0.05.

Jim her we disagree the point .05 is not the magic number I invented.
It is the excepted method used in studies and to pretend otherwise is
a tactic more fitting sales than science. If a treatment you did not
like had not proven significant effect you would not hesitate to say
so here you claim benefit that is unproven

You then begin to behave as if the absence of such a result when such a
result obtains for the (larger) male subgroup indicates that women benefit
less than men, which is just not a justifiable conclusion. Your statistical
logic is wrong. The error you make is a common one.

Jim I make no statement other than statins have not been shown to
benefit women in terms of mortality. In middle age men mortality
benefit can be shown to the .05 level in men with established
coronary disease men. We do have a more fundamental disagreement
that is that the results for one statin can be magically said to apply
to other statins .The HPS and all other studies that I have looked at
have not shown significant reduction in women; some have increased
mortality in the treated than the untreated arm . The fact is most
statins have never been tested on clinical results rather on lipid
lowering. Jama just published 2 new studies on Actos and Advandia .
Read them. Both where approved on the same surrogate marker BG the
results today caused an editorial asking for an end to testing for
surrogate end points. Do you think statins that have never been tested
on clinical end points only on lipid effect are exempt from that kind
of result. I personally think evidence based medicine is the way to
go.On women the best that can be said is statins have not been show to
save lives. They might -as you always say more people longer time or
longer time might cause there more cancers, more fatal strokes ect.
Now just not worth the risk

Thanks Vince



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