Re: next tips for dentures

From: TomZ (matrixdental_at_peoplepc.com)
Date: 11/11/04 

Date: 11 Nov 2004 07:56:18 -0800

Roy,

Your concerns and comments are appreciated.
When I accepted the offer test Diamond D in my laboratory, my concerns
were great. Like you, I have watched with great interest the plethora
of claims concerning all types of systems and products that are thrust
upon us as technicians. For the most part, the product is sold to the
prescriber long before there is any evidence base provided by the
laboratory. Dentists are led to believe that if the product specs out
in the testing lab, that it should be alright once in situ. As we have
seen from the failure of many products presented in this fashion,
someone gets burned.

My experiences, like yours, tends to produce a jaundiced eye toward
any claims of better, stronger, and so forth. So, with that in mind, I
approached the offer to help test and develop Diamond D with great
trepidation.
Initially, I believe I turned back 4 test lots which I felt hadnt met
the working characteristic parameters alone. I used the material
initially only on treatment or temporary appliances. I felt that these
kinds of appliances would test the strength issue better since many
times the situation is less than ideal. After a few months of using
Diamond D in these kinds of appliances, I started using it gradually
on definitive appliances. It wasnt scientific for sure, but it was
evidence based, as I was not seeing any initial problems with the
material. Let me backtrack for second Roy, and let you know I am not a
research chemist or polymer chemist, just a technician that is always
looking for ways to enhance and deliver a better product. My
endorsement of this product comes from my own experience, and I can
appreciate that my endorsement means squat to many. I produce a great
denture, I have a great client base, I love to share my knowledge of
my craft, but this isnt religion. My approach to dental technology has
always been techniques first, materials second. Its amazing how much
we lean on technology to overcompensate for our lack of technical
expertise. Literally my balls are on the line every time someone asks
me about what I use to construct my dentures. I am always very careful
to emphasize that techniques are numero uno, and that great products
only enhance the technique.

Roy, before I digress further you had some other things I would like
to address.

You mentioned color, you are absolutely correct, it is a time
sensitive test. I am only now getting some of those immediate dentures
back for reline, but I like what I see after I process fresh material
to the denture. So far, no discoloration.
You also ask about tooth adhesion.I cant supply electron microscopy as
to the bond at a molecular level, but I will say that I have not had 1
delamination in 2 years. Did I ever have tooth debonding or
delamination with other acrylics? ocassionally. Was it inside of 2
years of fabrication? Almost always. What does this mean? Maybe I am
lucky, maybe I have good technique, maybe Diamond D has better tooth
adhesion. I know that when I miss some wax on the lingual portion of a
tooth and the case is processed, I cant just flick the flash off, it
literally has to be shaved away with a sharp instrument.

Sorry to have gobbled up so much bandwidth here.
Roy, if you want, call me if you have any other questions.
By the way, those are the finished dentures in the website ,not
waxups.

Regards

TomZ

www.matrixdentallab.com

in message news:<z7zkd.25360$km5.1383171@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Thanks for expressing your position Tom.
>
> I think we have both been around dentistry about the same amount of time.
> Back when we started anecdotal evidence and testimonials were common and
> quite acceptable. Since then a transition towards evidence based dentistry
> has occurred. The anecdotal just doesn't quite cut it any more.
>
> I'm not saying your opinion is invalid, it is just not substantiated.
> Especially to those who do not know you. The point I was really making, was
> that when a well known company like Keystone uses this type of stuff in
> their marketing on an international level. Dropping names like TomZ really
> means DiddleE to me.
>
> In this country, I can count on one hand the individuals whose anecdotal
> opinions I would respect. That is because I know they have done their
> research. There are other highly esteemed or self proclaimed individuals
> whose opinion means squat, simply because they cannot substantiate or
> validate their position on most of what they spew forth.
>
> FWIW your observations have been duly noted. You have been observing results
> for a couple of years on a product that is intended to last through at least
> 5-8 years of consistent use, and often ends up being used substantially
> longer. I'd be interested in hearing how your colours are a few years from
> now. How are the teeth holding on then? Breakage? I know for me, I am seeing
> some long cured L199 cases coming back into the office, after only 4 years,
> looking like the cheap pour acrylics of days gone by. You know that funny
> sort of orange hue one gets from a cold cure denture. I'd be interested in
> hearing how that Diamond D is holding up 3 or 4 years from now. Much the
> same as I'm waiting to hear how the Eclipse is holding up. Anecdotally the
> number of Success Injection units I see being almost given away in the
> classified ads or on eBay, tells me something about this "wonderful"
> technique marketed to us about the lifespan of a denture ago.
>
> So it goes ....
>
> BTW I like your wax ups.
> --
> Roy
> DotSeaEh is .ca Eh! (for Bill)
>
> "TomZ" <matrixdental@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
> news:1fa7fe02.0411101045.336e7fbf@posting.google.com...
> | Hello,
> |
> | It was called to my attention that there was a thread concerning
> | Diamond D acrylic resin here in sci. med. I figured since I have the
> | most time spent in using this material in the laboaratory perhaps
> | there was some questions regarding my observations using it.
> |
> | To answer Roys statement that my comments about Diamond D are
> | anecdotal is correct, since they are only based on my and other users
> | observations. Since all my information concerning this product is only
> | based on "real world" use, and not clinically controlled testing, my
> | observations will have to be defined as anecdotes.
> |
> | My observations and experiences with Diamond D Acrylic are based on
> | daily usage, in the fabrication of immediate dentures, conventional
> | dentures, partial dentures, acrylic partial temporary or provisional
> | dentures, transitional full dentures, and relines. I have used
> | several, popular brands of acrylics over the last 20 years. I use the
> | standard 8 hour long cure polymerization technique with a prior 1 hour
> | bench set and slow cool to room temperature. Lucitone 199, Fricke Hi
> | I, and Candulor acrylic base, are a few that I have past long term
> | experience with.
> |
> | None performed as well, based on MY criteria.
> | Simple things, like the wetting properties, and working consistency of
> | the material. I like a homogenous doughy consistency when I pack, not
> | material with flakey dried edges like some materials exhibit. I trial
> | pack everything several times, I like the gloss to matte effect I
> | observe when I initially open and remove the plastic ***. In my mind
> | this tells me that the wetting is complete.
> |
> | In 24 months of usage I have not experienced ANY repairs such as tooth
> | delamination or pop off, midline fracture or flange fracture. This
> | includes those paper thin immediate denture flanges we are faced with
> | when conservatively trimming the model when the patient is anteriorly
> | dentulous prior to delivery. Is this acrylic stronger flexurally?, one
> | thing is for sure, its not less flexurally strong, as I have had early
> | repairs with other acrylics in the past and none with Diamond D as of
> | yet.
> |
> | During relines I have not noticed any color differenciation between
> | lots of material. I use pound containers and have several mixed lots
> | that I am processing with. My observation, the color is consistent,
> | scientific data?, nope just my observation.
> |
> | I hope this helps.
> |
> | TomZ

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