Re: next tips for dentures
From: Joel M. Eichen (joeleichen_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 11/11/04
- Next message: Joel M. Eichen: "Re: next tips for dentures"
- Previous message: The Webby: "Re: Fish and teeth Was: Re: Frugal Crab ("krab")"
- In reply to: TomZ: "Re: next tips for dentures"
- Next in thread: Joel M. Eichen: "Re: next tips for dentures"
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ]
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:10:19 -0500
On 11 Nov 2004 07:56:18 -0800, matrixdental@peoplepc.com (TomZ) wrote:
>Roy,
>
>Your concerns and comments are appreciated.
>When I accepted the offer test Diamond D in my laboratory, my concerns
>were great.
Why not just try it and if its no good toss it?
Joel
> Like you, I have watched with great interest the plethora
>of claims concerning all types of systems and products that are thrust
>upon us as technicians. For the most part, the product is sold to the
>prescriber long before there is any evidence base provided by the
>laboratory. Dentists are led to believe that if the product specs out
>in the testing lab, that it should be alright once in situ. As we have
>seen from the failure of many products presented in this fashion,
>someone gets burned.
Make a denture and see what happens .......
Like I do with fast food or something. If its lousy, its my last.
Joel
>
>My experiences, like yours, tends to produce a jaundiced eye toward
>any claims of better, stronger, and so forth. So, with that in mind, I
>approached the offer to help test and develop Diamond D with great
>trepidation.
>Initially, I believe I turned back 4 test lots which I felt hadnt met
>the working characteristic parameters alone. I used the material
>initially only on treatment or temporary appliances. I felt that these
>kinds of appliances would test the strength issue better since many
>times the situation is less than ideal. After a few months of using
>Diamond D in these kinds of appliances, I started using it gradually
>on definitive appliances. It wasnt scientific for sure, but it was
>evidence based, as I was not seeing any initial problems with the
>material. Let me backtrack for second Roy, and let you know I am not a
>research chemist or polymer chemist, just a technician that is always
>looking for ways to enhance and deliver a better product. My
>endorsement of this product comes from my own experience, and I can
>appreciate that my endorsement means squat to many. I produce a great
>denture, I have a great client base, I love to share my knowledge of
>my craft, but this isnt religion. My approach to dental technology has
>always been techniques first, materials second. Its amazing how much
>we lean on technology to overcompensate for our lack of technical
>expertise. Literally my balls are on the line every time someone asks
>me about what I use to construct my dentures. I am always very careful
>to emphasize that techniques are numero uno, and that great products
>only enhance the technique.
>
>Roy, before I digress further you had some other things I would like
>to address.
>
>You mentioned color, you are absolutely correct, it is a time
>sensitive test. I am only now getting some of those immediate dentures
>back for reline, but I like what I see after I process fresh material
>to the denture. So far, no discoloration.
>You also ask about tooth adhesion.I cant supply electron microscopy as
>to the bond at a molecular level, but I will say that I have not had 1
>delamination in 2 years. Did I ever have tooth debonding or
>delamination with other acrylics? ocassionally. Was it inside of 2
>years of fabrication? Almost always. What does this mean? Maybe I am
>lucky, maybe I have good technique, maybe Diamond D has better tooth
>adhesion. I know that when I miss some wax on the lingual portion of a
>tooth and the case is processed, I cant just flick the flash off, it
>literally has to be shaved away with a sharp instrument.
>
>Sorry to have gobbled up so much bandwidth here.
>Roy, if you want, call me if you have any other questions.
>By the way, those are the finished dentures in the website ,not
>waxups.
>
>Regards
>
>TomZ
>
>www.matrixdentallab.com
>
>
>
>
>
>in message news:<z7zkd.25360$km5.1383171@news20.bellglobal.com>...
>> Thanks for expressing your position Tom.
>>
>> I think we have both been around dentistry about the same amount of time.
>> Back when we started anecdotal evidence and testimonials were common and
>> quite acceptable. Since then a transition towards evidence based dentistry
>> has occurred. The anecdotal just doesn't quite cut it any more.
>>
>> I'm not saying your opinion is invalid, it is just not substantiated.
>> Especially to those who do not know you. The point I was really making, was
>> that when a well known company like Keystone uses this type of stuff in
>> their marketing on an international level. Dropping names like TomZ really
>> means DiddleE to me.
>>
>> In this country, I can count on one hand the individuals whose anecdotal
>> opinions I would respect. That is because I know they have done their
>> research. There are other highly esteemed or self proclaimed individuals
>> whose opinion means squat, simply because they cannot substantiate or
>> validate their position on most of what they spew forth.
>>
>> FWIW your observations have been duly noted. You have been observing results
>> for a couple of years on a product that is intended to last through at least
>> 5-8 years of consistent use, and often ends up being used substantially
>> longer. I'd be interested in hearing how your colours are a few years from
>> now. How are the teeth holding on then? Breakage? I know for me, I am seeing
>> some long cured L199 cases coming back into the office, after only 4 years,
>> looking like the cheap pour acrylics of days gone by. You know that funny
>> sort of orange hue one gets from a cold cure denture. I'd be interested in
>> hearing how that Diamond D is holding up 3 or 4 years from now. Much the
>> same as I'm waiting to hear how the Eclipse is holding up. Anecdotally the
>> number of Success Injection units I see being almost given away in the
>> classified ads or on eBay, tells me something about this "wonderful"
>> technique marketed to us about the lifespan of a denture ago.
>>
>> So it goes ....
>>
>> BTW I like your wax ups.
>> --
>> Roy
>> DotSeaEh is .ca Eh! (for Bill)
>>
>> "TomZ" <matrixdental@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
>> news:1fa7fe02.0411101045.336e7fbf@posting.google.com...
>> | Hello,
>> |
>> | It was called to my attention that there was a thread concerning
>> | Diamond D acrylic resin here in sci. med. I figured since I have the
>> | most time spent in using this material in the laboaratory perhaps
>> | there was some questions regarding my observations using it.
>> |
>> | To answer Roys statement that my comments about Diamond D are
>> | anecdotal is correct, since they are only based on my and other users
>> | observations. Since all my information concerning this product is only
>> | based on "real world" use, and not clinically controlled testing, my
>> | observations will have to be defined as anecdotes.
>> |
>> | My observations and experiences with Diamond D Acrylic are based on
>> | daily usage, in the fabrication of immediate dentures, conventional
>> | dentures, partial dentures, acrylic partial temporary or provisional
>> | dentures, transitional full dentures, and relines. I have used
>> | several, popular brands of acrylics over the last 20 years. I use the
>> | standard 8 hour long cure polymerization technique with a prior 1 hour
>> | bench set and slow cool to room temperature. Lucitone 199, Fricke Hi
>> | I, and Candulor acrylic base, are a few that I have past long term
>> | experience with.
>> |
>> | None performed as well, based on MY criteria.
>> | Simple things, like the wetting properties, and working consistency of
>> | the material. I like a homogenous doughy consistency when I pack, not
>> | material with flakey dried edges like some materials exhibit. I trial
>> | pack everything several times, I like the gloss to matte effect I
>> | observe when I initially open and remove the plastic sheet. In my mind
>> | this tells me that the wetting is complete.
>> |
>> | In 24 months of usage I have not experienced ANY repairs such as tooth
>> | delamination or pop off, midline fracture or flange fracture. This
>> | includes those paper thin immediate denture flanges we are faced with
>> | when conservatively trimming the model when the patient is anteriorly
>> | dentulous prior to delivery. Is this acrylic stronger flexurally?, one
>> | thing is for sure, its not less flexurally strong, as I have had early
>> | repairs with other acrylics in the past and none with Diamond D as of
>> | yet.
>> |
>> | During relines I have not noticed any color differenciation between
>> | lots of material. I use pound containers and have several mixed lots
>> | that I am processing with. My observation, the color is consistent,
>> | scientific data?, nope just my observation.
>> |
>> | I hope this helps.
>> |
>> | TomZ
- Next message: Joel M. Eichen: "Re: next tips for dentures"
- Previous message: The Webby: "Re: Fish and teeth Was: Re: Frugal Crab ("krab")"
- In reply to: TomZ: "Re: next tips for dentures"
- Next in thread: Joel M. Eichen: "Re: next tips for dentures"
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ]
Relevant Pages
|
